KLASDOTY.TXT
NOTE: The file is reproduced verbatim, except for use of "(sic)".
Use of "{}" and "()" brackets, along with CAPITALIZATION and
underlining "___" are evidently the work of the author of
this transcript. Additionally, all personal comments and
characterizations contained within, are also of the author's.
"PJK:" = Phillip J. Klass
"RCD:" = Richard C. Doty
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=======================================================================
Richard (Rick) C. Doty: Telephone interview: Jan. 8, 1988
(Highlight/Excerpts)
1. Says unable to meet with PJK this weekend, will not be in the area, returning Thursday/Friday.
2. He asked what he could do for me and I said I wanted to get him (sic) comments on allegations against him in Just Cause and in MUFOn (sic) Journal. Said he has seen both.
PJK: Are you planning to take any action?
RCD: I've already taken action. I've an attorney that last summer took some action on my behalf regarding the allegation that I allegedly had leaked these documents. {{PJK Note: But that allegation would not (sic) made publicly by Greenwood until Sept. 1987}} And Greenwood, Gersten, Moore and a couple other people were involved. WELL, I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT SIGNED BY BILL MOORE THAT WAS EXECUTED IN COURT WITH MY ATTORNEY PRESENT THAT SAYS THAT BILL MOORE NEVER, EVER RECEIVED ANYTHING FROM ME OTHER THAN SOME BITS AND PIECES ABOUT AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED AT KIRTLAND IN 1980. {{PJK doubts this could have occurred in the few months since allegations were made public.}}
"HE GAVE THE PERSON'S NAME IN THE AFFIDAVIT THAT HE RECEIVED THE DOCUMENTS FROM, AND THIS PERSON--I DON'T KNOW HIM--THIS PERSON IS IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND MY ATTORNEY WENT TO WASHINGTON D.C. AND SPOKE TO THIS PERSON AND HE DENIED EVER GIVING BILL MOORE ANYTHING ALTHOUGH HE SAID HE HAD REGULAR CONTACT WITH BILL MOORE. {{PJK: Very doubtful claim}}
So, allegedly, Peter Gersten was given this information and then apologized saying that they never had any concrete information that I had given him anything anyways, but they had kind of put two and two together and thought that it must have come from me.
PJK: You say that Moore signed an affidavit. Have you made that affidavit public?
RCD: No, no I haven't.
PJK: Do you plan to?
RCD: I don't know. It's up to the attorney. Again, this happened last year and I have had (sic) any further contact with MUFON or the CAUS
people. {He later changes this story.} When that article came I was inundated with phone calls and letters and people trying to interview me
saying they want to know what this is all about. And I don't even know, I didn't know, I didn't see these documents until October or November.
{NOTE: he is referring to the MJ-12 papers, which were first made public in late May/early June, 1987}
And I too (sic) one look at them and said, these are phony. (Laughs) These aren't even credible documents. What I was shown had some legitimate documents in that was obtained FOIA but these other ones that were released--apparently Bill Moore released it in some kind of a news release.
He claimed to have gotten these in (PJK: In December, 1984). Well I wasn't even in the country, nor would anyone have had access to me in
1984. All these things were started in the lawyer's--I can't remember what the legal term was he used--but the court document refuting the claim
that I gave him.
PJK: Would you be willing to give me the name of your lawyer?
RCD: Ah, I can give him your name and he can contact you. But why would you want to know that?
PJK: (Explains I am long-time UFO skeptic/investigator, that if MJ-12 papers were authentic, it would be biggest story for AW&ST. So I dug
into MJ-12, found evidence to indicate they are a hoax.)
RCD: Yeah, you just have to look at them. A fifth grader could tell they're not properly classified and down grade instructions. I've been
working in classified for 20 years, from all levels. When my lawyer showed me copies of them--and my lawyer is retired military, of course,
and he could tell they're phony.
Apparently Gersten's crew knew they were phony.
PJK: (Explains prevailing view among UFO believers is that MJ-12 is a hoax, but question is who is responsible for producing them.)
RCD: WELL, THE FBI KNOWS THAT. THE FBI KNOWS WHO DID IT. THAT INFORMATION WAS PROVIDED TO THE FBI, THE FBI INTERVIEWED THIS PERSON AND OF COURSE THIS PERSON DENIED HE EVER GAVE THEM TO HIM (Moore).
But I think what this person did was he created the documents--I don't know if Bill Moore was actually involved in it, I don't think he was,
but it's a possibility.
The FBI never pursued it, I don't know why, unless they just couldn't. I don't know if there was any law that this guy broke. I don't if that is public record or not, but you'd have to go to the FBI to find out.BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THEY INTERVIEWED HIM--THIS PERSON IN WASHINGTON D.C.
PJK: And about when would that have been?
RCD: Ah, gee, last year (ie. 1987)
PJK: How would the FBI have located this person in Washington--I'll call him Mr. X--
RCD: As a matter of fact that's what William Moore called him, Mr. X.
PJK: Are you suggesting that Moore told the FBI who X is?
RCD: I don't. To tell you the truth I don't remember how--and I don't even know if I was privvy (sic) to that information as to how the FBI found ought (sic) who this guy was, but I think that after this stuff came out the Justice Dept. investigated it or made some inquiries or something and then found out, I don't know how. I don't have that information.
---------------------------------------------------------
PJK then raises allegations made by CAUS and reads the first: "In 1984, Linda Moulton Howe, who produced the well-known cattle mutilation film STRANGE HARVEST, was contacted by a government source {{CAUS later identifies this source as Doty}} to aid in producing a UFO documentary, essentially providing the answer to UFOs. She was invited by the source, briefed on the story, then sworn to secrecy about it until the film's eventual release. The deal was never completed. Details of the story given to her match the MJ-12 tale, along with much extra detail about contacts with 'EBES' {{Extraterrestrial Biological Entities}}, Nordic type aliens called 'Highs' and conflicting alien factions."
What can you tell me about your contact with her?
RCD: (Laughs) OK. In my duties, in my official government duties I made contact with her AND I CAN'T TELL YOU WHY, I made contact with her for information that she had that she was willing to share with us. The information had nothing to do with UFOs, absolutely nothing to do with UFOs. {{PJK note: Howe is a slightly wacky free-lance TV producer who focuses on UFOs, cattle mutilations, UFO-abductions, etc.
--What kind of info would she have that Doty would seek "in an official" capacity--and which is so sensitive he could not tell me??}}
When she found out I was with a government agency and I was the same one that had investigated the (UFO) incident (at Kirtland) in 1980, she started asking me questions about UFOs, about what I thought about UFOs, and what my beliefs were about them, and if I could tell her anything about what the government had. And I told her, I don't know very much. I can tell you what happened at Kirtland, because I investigated it. Probably it can be explained away.
She said that she had been involved with Budd Hopkins and a number of people who claimed to have been abducted (by UFOs) and then she gives me this whole story about aliens abducting people, and they're called EBES, and then she said she had a contact--I later found out who
it was--that had showed her some government documents pertaining to MJ-12 and all this other stuff.
But I never, ever originated any contact regarding UFOs with her. Because of our continuing interest in what she was doing--NOT UFOs but
to something else--she would ask me questions like what do you think about this, what do you thing (sic) about that?
I can tell you that in 1985, excuse me in May, 1986, I TOOK AN EXTENSIVE POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION PERTAINING TO AN ALLEGATION SHE HAD MADE AND I PASSED IT, A GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED POLYGRAPH, SHOWING I WAS THE ONE TELLING THE TRUTH AND SHE WAS THE ONE LYING.
PJK asks if Howe took a Polygraph test and he says no.
RCD: There was another person involved in this who took a polygraph test and failed it. That's why I say I know where she got the information from. Because this person REFUSED (??) AND QUIT GOVERNMENT SERVICE AT THE TIME. Anyway, she would sit down and talk to me for hours about UFOs, but she would do all the talking. She had everything already figured out. She claimed that well I know there's a ship FLYING ABOVE THE ARCTIC THAT ARE COLLECTING SOULS AND THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SOULS AND THEY HAVE TO BE REGENERATED. JUST INCREDIBLE STUFF. SHE BELIEVES ALL THESE ABDUCTEES...
I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, AND I HAVE NOTHING TO BACK THIS UP, STRICTLY UNOFFICIAL, BUT I WAS TOLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AFTER HOPKINS WORTE HIS (first) BOOK, CALLED MISSING TIME, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WENT TO THESE PEOPLE (i.e. "abductees") AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME INFORMATION TO THE GOVERNMENT AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE REPUDIATED WHAT THEY TOLD HOPKINS. NOW THAT'S WHAT I WAS TOLD.
Anyway, I never told her and showed her anything, except what we were doing on the other project. She just made that up, she exaggerated...
she's jsut so hung up you can't talk about anything else (with her).
PJK: Then reads a second allegation: "CAUS Director, Peter Gersten, in a visit with a military intelligence source at Kirtland AFB in 1983 {{later identified as Doty}} was informed of a wide range of bizarre UFO stories. Included were comments on a briefing paper on UFOs for President
Carter, the Cash/Landrum (incident) being a government exploitation of UFO technology- ...Bill Moore being 'right on' with Roswell (crashed
saucer), and an admission that the original Project Acquarius (sic) cable (TWX) ...was retyped and not an original cable. This cable was the
first mention anywhere of MJ-12 and Project Acquarius (sic)."
RCD: (Laughs) Gersten came out, I don't even remember when it was, and somebody from California, some television official from California.
Gersten had spoke to me on the telephone several days before and said he'd like to get in touch with me about this 1980 Kirtland incident.
So I agreed to meet with him.
And he sat there and asked me a number of questions about UFOs and I answered him LIKE I WAS TOLD TO ANSWER HIM. The meeting was official insofar as my capacity.
PJK: Do you have a tape recording of that meeting?
RCD: Oh yes.
PJK: Where would that be, in OSI files?
RCD: I can't disclose. I'm not going to comment on that. But when I confronted Peter Gersten some time later, after my attorney did, he shut right up, suspecting that it was recorded and knowing that he's lying. I told him if he wants to go to court--I told him in a telephone conversation I did--if you want to go to court, I've got the evidence to prove you wrong. And he just shut his mouth.
Now I'm not going to go into that because there's another aspect involved that I can't discuss. {{RCD FREQUENTLY IMPLIES THAT HE CANNOT DISCUSS SOMETHING BECAUSE OF SENSITIVITY, I.E. SECURITY.}} The only conversation I had with Gersten was RIGHT OUTSIDE A HOTEL. HE WANTED TO MEET ME ALONE, GETTING BACK TO THE CONVERSATION IN THE RESTAURANT. IT WAS STRICTLY HIM ASKING ME QUESTIONS AND ME DENYING THEM. "I don't know what you're talking about. No, I don't know about this, or that."
He asked me about the UFO in Texas that exploded and hurt somebody [PJK: The Cash-Landrum case]. I said I know nothing about that. HE was the one who said I understand it was a recovered alien craft, flown by the government--his source had told him that. I said, well, I don't know. {{PJK: Gersten was the lawyer for Ms. Cash and Ms. Landrum who sued USAF for $10 million for alleged injuries.}}
Anyways, he asked me, well I don't remember now. But he asked me a lot of questions but I never once provided, not one bit of information to him, or to anyone else. (laughs) Come on now, I wouldn't be fool enough to do that. Well, anyway he said he wanted to meet me later near his hotel where he was staying and I agreed with that. {{Strange behaviour if RCD could not or did not want to answer Gersten's questions.}} The coversation (sic) wasn't recorded.
He showed me a document that was allegedly a teletype message that was sent from ah, I think it was sent from Washington to OSI Detachment or district headquarters at Kirtland, I believe that was the routing. Any way, (sic) I looked at the document and said gee this is an inaccurate document. And he said, why? And I said, well in a classified document each paragraph is classified and in this document the paragraphs were not classified. The top marking said it was supposedly secret.
And he said, well read it, and I read it and said well it appears to me that somebody retyped this and typed this up. And he said, do you think it's based on an actual document, and I said, well, I said, it could be based on an actual document but I'm not going to say it was. Now, years later, it was based on an actual document that was typed. However, SOMEBODY ADDED A LOT OF FABRICATION TO IT, A LOT OF JUNK TO IT.
Now, who I think did it is Richard Todd {{A UFOlogist in Penn. or N.J. who is active investigator using FOIA) ...He sent documents to the government which were forged and he said in his letter, these are forged documents, don't you think they're great. I mean they had all sorts of code words in them, unbelieveable. And I think that somebody provided some information to Todd or Gersten and then they exaggerated all the rest of it. Probably from the FOIA documents that were released in 1980, or whenever they were released.
So that was it. And then about a month later Gersten called me back and said HEY, CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME MORE INFORMATION. AND I SAID, NO I GAVE YOU--HE WANTED ME TO COMMENT MORE ON THE DOCUMENT, THE MJ-12 AND ACQUARIUS. AND THEN HE PROBABLY CALLED ME SEVERAL TIMES AFTER THAT BUT I NEVER HAD ANY, NEVER VOLUNTEERED ANY INFORMATION. I'M A PROFESSIONAL INTELLIGENCE PERSON AND I KNOW WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT NOT TO SAY, AND I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T TELL ANYBODY ANYTHING THAT WOULD GET ME IN TROUBLE.
PJK: Asks if he is due to retire soon.
RCD: Yes
PJK: What are you going to be doing then?
RCD: I have a business.
(PJK offers to reimburse him for this long-distance call)
RCD: I'd just as soon put this thing to rest, and I thought it was at rest once before. And I wouldn't even have spoke to you BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SPOKE TO ANY ONE ELSE {{CONTRADICTS EARLIER STATEMENT ABOUT MANY PHONE CALLS, INTERVIEWS}}
BUT A HIGH OFFICIAL WITHIN DOD CONTACTED ME AFTER I TALKED WITH GEORGE PEARCE AND SAID NO, I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO ANYBODY. BUT THIS OFFICIAL FROM DOD CONTACTED ME AND SAID THAT YOU (pjk) WERE LEGITIMATE AND YOU WOULD REBUT THESE, SO I SAID SURE, AS LONG AS HE'S GOING TO PRESS THE TRUTH AND NOT EXAGGERATE LIKE ALL THESE PEOPLE, I'LL BE HAPPY TO TALK TO HIM.
{{After this telcon, PJK called Col. David Shea, to thank him for calling RCD, only to be told that Shea did NOT talk to Doty, but to George Pearce--P.I.O. at Kirtland--SO CLEARLY RCD WAS NOT BEING FULLY TRUTHFUL IN ABOVE CLAIM--BUT TRYING TO MAKE HIMSELF SOUND IMPRESSIVE.}}
PJK: Asks for RCD's suspicions as to who composed MJ-12 documents. "What about Bill Moore"?
RCD: No. I'VE HAD A NUMBER OF CONTACTS WITH HIM. TO TELL THE TRUTH, I DON'T THINK HE HAS THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO THAT. Now he could probably have helped.
I KNOW SOME THINGS THAT YOU DON'T--THE GOVERNMENT I SHOULD SAY--KNEW SOME THINGS ABOUT HIM THAT MAYBE OTHER PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, THAT WOULD INDICATE TO ME THAT I DON'T THINK HE WOULD DO IT. NOW THAT'S MY FEELING. MAYBE HE DID, I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WITHIN DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency] who is a good friend of Emmeneger--do you know a guy name of Emmeneger ...he's a person who wrote a book about a Holloman incident in 1964-- he wrote it in 1972 or 1973--supposedly a UFO landed at Holloman Air Force Base--and this Emmenger (sic) wrote a book and he allegedly based it on information that was provided to him by DIA officials in Washington. I never read the book....
PJK: When is the incident supposed to have occurred?
RCD: In 1964. HOLLOMAN AF BASE INCIDENT WHERE A UFO ALLEGEDLY LANDED RIGHT ON THE BASE AND IT WAS FLOWN INTO A HANGER AND THE BASE COMMANDER AND EVERYBODY GOT OUT THERE AND MET THE ALIENS. EMMENEGER SUPPOSEDLY WAS ALLOWED TO SEE HIGHLY CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS IN THE PENTAGON REGARDING THIS INCIDENT AND THEN HE WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT--1973 OR 1974.
PJK: But why would they send it (MJ-12 papers) to Jamie Shandera
RCD: WHO?
PJK: Nobody in the UFO Movement had ever heard of Jamie Shandera
RCD: WHO?
PJK: Shandera is the guy who allegedly received the MJ-12 documents on a roll of unprocessed 35 mm. film.
RCD: Well, I don't know him. {{PJK believes he is telling truth, based on his reactions above--unless RCD is a clever actor.}} That's probably just a name that Moore uses. Is this guy an actual person?
PJK: Yeah, I've met him. He's a TV producer in southern California. (PJK explores why film was sent to Shandera instead of Moore.)
RCD: My gut feeling, but don't quote me, my gut feel is that THOSE (MJ-12) DOCUMENTS WERE ORIGINATED BY A PERSON WITHIN DIA AND THAT THEY WERE SENT TO MOORE OR TO WHOMEVER THIS OTHER GUY IS, IN ORDER TO DISCREDIT THEM.
MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT IT WAS A GOVERNMENT OPERATION. (i.e. government disinformation) I WASN'T INVOLVED IN IT. But it was a government operation.
PJK (plays devil's advocate to challenge his theory)
RCD: Well, maybe Mr. X thought it was such a good piece of forgery that Moore--without ever having been in government service or the
military--wouldn't recognize it (as a forgery). And they would be so fascinating to Moore
PJK: Then goes into anomaly in the date format used in MJ-12 briefing document--same curious format used by William Moore.
RCD: Well, you're seeing things that I didn't see. Maybe he did do it.
PJK then offered to send him copy of my upcoming article in Skeptical Inquirer, and he expressed interest:
PJK asked for mailing address and RCD gave military address, not home address:
Richard C. Doty
1606 SVS/SVF
Kirtland AFB, N.M. 87117
When PJK asked: "and is that Master Sergeant," there was a long pause and he answered "yeah, you can put Master Sergeant."
PJK: My advice to you would be that I think that you or your lawyer ought to write a letter to CAUS or to the MUFON UFO Journal and ask
that it be published, denying those things that you feel you should deny.
RCD: OK Well, see, we did that. We wrote to the publishers of the newsletters {{Note PLURAL--yet MUFON report just came out about a week ago.}} but they didn't publish em.
PJK: Well, if you did that, I would very much like to get a copy. In other words, if you wrote it, intending for it to be made public, then
there certainly is no reason for it to be kept secret.
RCD: OK, what's your address.
PJK: Supplied same.
RCD: Yeah, I'll be more than happy to send you a, I'll dig 'em up.
(Don't hold your breath until they arrive.)
When PJK asks if he will stay in Albuquerque after he retires, he said he will stay in New Mexico, explains he went to school out here and his
father is ex-military.
When PJK asks if his father was in Army or AF, he replies:
RCD: Air Force, and he had something to do with Blue Book, too.
PJK: Tell me more about that.
RCD: Well, he was an investigator for Blue Book, he was at Holloman from 1962 to 1966, four years. He was involved in the Lonnie Zamora
case {{1964 "UFO landing"" at Socorro}}. Edward Doty, if you've ever seen any documents you'll see his name on it.
PJK: Is he still alive?
RCD: Yes, he's still alive. But he doesn't talk about it. The ironic thing, we were at Holloman, living, in 1964 and if anyone would have known
about the landing of that spacecraft, my Dad would have, and he says baloney, nothing like that ever happened.
PJK: Again invited him to send me the telephone bill and I would pay for it.
-------------------------------------------------------------
PJK Characterization based on this telecon:
--- In ufos-unbound@yahoogroups.com, dee777@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/4/2004 4:04:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> dexxxaa@e... writes:
I'd like to add something I think hasn't been talked about or mentioned concerning the girl abducted by the Dulce group. While
her brief stay in their underground laboratory and witnessing those large vats of blue swirl with human parts floating about, she also told
Paul Bennewitz and Maj. Edwards, upon her return, the alien in charge pointed out to her a vat that contained an intact body form of a
different type of alien, probably belonging to another ET group, had said to her this one was a personal enemy of his. Paul was repulsed
by the ghoulishness of these aliens and wanted to rid the world of them. Paul's experiences with these aliens haven't surfaced
completely in the public domain. I haven't told everything I know about Paul sorry to say, But his is a remarkable story. I'm sorry
that because of his eventual breakdown and of his recent passing, excluding those who personally knew him, most researchers are now
more inclined to think he was crazy all along. Discrediting an impressive individual who's exposure of the violating groups kicked
off awareness of the siege mind set of these off world intelligence.
Dex
From: dee777@aol.com
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:24 am
Subject: Re: [DrRichBoylanReports] The Aviary
In a message dated 2/12/2004
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Boylan, Ph.D. [mailto:drboylan@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:21 PM
To: DrRichBoylanReports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DrRichBoylanReports] The Aviary
Birds of a Feather No Longer: Policy Split Divides Aviary UFO- Secrecy Group
by
Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D.
(c)1995
Since a time apparently in the 1970s, a number of individuals with extremely high security clearances, who were working on various aspects of the UFO phenomenon, began to interact with each other on a regular basis to pool the information each had from their highly- compartmented assignments. The objective was to coordinate data, see the big picture about UFOs and extraterrestrial contacts with Earth, and to use this privileged information pool to gain access to additional secret data, to understand the policies of the elite, hypersecret Majestic-12 (MJ-12) UFO information-control and policy group, and to gain special influence through having this highly- privileged information.
This elite group of perhaps 14 individuals working in National Security assignments eventually gave themselves code-names, using mostly bird names. Collectively, they came to be called The Aviary (bird enclosure). A reader warning is in order: This affiliative network may exist as reported, or the accounts of this grouping may include disinformation generated by The Aviary themselves to obscure their membership.
The relationship of The Aviary to the MJ-12 (ultimate UFO information control and policy) Group is murky. It is the estimate of more than one UFO researcher that there is some overlap in membership; meaning that MJ-12 has quietly infiltrated The Aviary to keep tabs on it and to keep it under control.
It has been reported by Dr. Steven Greer, Director of the Center for the Study of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (CSETI), that the MJ-12 Group is now designated as PI-40, [Personal communication, January, 1995]. This hyper-classified group deals with the most sensitive compartmented information regarding extraterrestrials, and is so covert a Special Access Program, that reportedly the President and Congress do not exercise control over PI-40, and only know of its existence through rumor.
Dick D'Amato, National and International Security Specialist for Senator Robert Byrd, and a member of the National Security Council (NSC), in 1991, stated that UFO information should be released, but that an incredibly powerful black arm of the government has been keeping it secret, and spending enormous sums of money illegally in this operation. D'Amato said that the NSC is trying to find out who these people are. [Personal communication with Jesse Marcel, Jr., M.D., Washington, D.C., 1991; as reported in eUFOria, the Black Hills UFO Network Publication, 2:2, May, 1995.]
Ironically, the answer may be right under their noses. It is quite possible that PI-40 exists within a hyper-compartmented Special Access Program, yet with informal informational links to the National Security Council's 5240 [Black Projects] Committee. [Timothy Good, Above Top Secret, 1983; L. Fletcher Prouty, The Secret Team, 1973.]
While there may be some overlap between The Aviary and the PI-40 group, they remain two separate entities. PI-40 is clearly at the top; for PI-40 is the policy and decision group who have orchestrated the UFO Cover-Up since 1947, while simultaneously releasing little fragments of UFO/Star Visitor information, to gradually condition the American public to the slowly-dawning realization of UFO reality.
The Aviary is the group of individuals with histories of working in UFO-related National Security projects who have obtained more complete information (and thus power) by closely coordinating the data, informants, and efforts each is involved with. Now, leaked reports from sources close to some Aviary members suggest that there is a split within the Aviary, (which may well mirror a split within the PI-40 group.)
On one side are those members of The Aviary who feel that the time has come when information about UFO reality and ET contacts should
be broadly disclosed to the public. These Good Guys feel that the public is ready for this information, and generally can handle it. Others within the Aviary, on the Dark Side , resist such disclosure. The Dark Side members do not want to lose the power which a UFO/ET-information monoploy has given them. From their behavior, it appears that they do not welcome close public scrutiny of their role in the UFO Cover- Up. Additionally, one or two among them have reportedly engaged in not-properly-authorized, illegal, and sometimes injurious projects and operations. The split over disclosure versus maintaining the Cover-Up is creating a climate where there are increasing leaks, as the Good Guys try to force disclosure, and establish for themselves a track record of belated candor with the American public. It is important not to demonize all the reported members of The Aviary. Most are presumably well-intentioned scientists or (former) military or intelligence officers, with careers spanning the Cold War, and who no doubt sincerely believed that UFO secrecy was vital to maintain. Any crimes committed by those few of the Dark Side will have to be determined in a proper military or civilian court of jurisdiction.
The following is a list of reported members of The Aviary. - BLUEJAY: Dr. Christopher Kit Green, MD, Ph.D., Chief, Biomedical Sciences Department, General Motors; former custodian of the CIA's UFO files at the Weird Desk ; received the National Intelligence Medal for his work on a classified project during the period of 1979- 1983; recently reported to be White House UFO liason. - PELICAN: Ron Pandolfi, CIA Deputy Director for the Division of Science and Technology, and current custodian of UFO files at the Weird Desk ; involved in the White House Initiative, as UFO liaison, to expedite (at Laurence Rockefeller's behest) the release of UFO information to the public; and has been quietly leaking UFO information the past few years.
- OWL: Hal Puthoff, physicist with the Institute for Advanced research in Austin, TX who specializes in Zero-Point Energy, a quantum/resonance physics phenomenon with reported potential for above- unity ( free ) energy; formerly an Stanford Research Institute (SRI) and reported DIA researcher, (along with psi guru and fellow Scientologist Ingo Swann,) into parapsychological, psychotronic, remote-viewing, and mind-control projects, and reportedly involved in classified ET-technology studies.
- RAVEN: (Identity not yet determined.) RAVEN appears to be a kingpin in The Aviary, and a Washington insiders' guessing game has sprung up, as devotees of UFO intelligence data argue for the probable identity of their favorite candidate . [Possible candidates: Henry Kissinger, Ph.D., Edward Teller, Ph.D.; General Brent Scowcroft.]
- PENGUIN: John Alexander, Ph.D. in Death Sciences [Thanatology], Col., ( Ret. ), U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command
(INSCOM), which is undoubtedly his military cover for the National Security Agency (NSA). Colonel Alexander is director of the Non- Lethal (sic) Weapons Department, Los Alamos National Laboratory
[LANL], and has been reportedly involved in counter-intelligence remote-viewing, psychic-warfare, psychotronic and mind-control projects with military/security applications, while maintaining the cover of nonlethal military/crowd control physical-countermeasures research. Dr. Alexander is a Board Member, (along with INSCOM General Al Stubblebine and INSCOM Major Ed Dames), of PSI-Tech Corporation, involved in proprietary remote- viewing projects. 2003 Update Note: Colonel John Penguin Alexander was spotted last year by this author at a retired intelligence officers dinner function at Sixth Army Headquarters, The Presidio, San Francisco. Alexander had become bloated, and was accompanied by his life- partner, Victoria Lacas, dressed as always in faux-Goth all-black, (which does nothing to dispel rumors circulating in the ufological community about reported interest in sorcery.) This author has been informed that Alexander is head of the Aviary, and that the Aviary
is headquartered at LANL. This author has heard from a source that one or more members of the Aviary are believed to have been a party to MILABS operations, (rogue military-intelligence units kidnapping, interrogation, terrorizing, drugging, and hypnotic mind-control programming of
innocent civilians, and implanting of a false post-hypnotic memory that the episode was an alien abduction .) This author has also learned that one or more members of the Aviary are thought to have engaged in seeking to control the souls of Holocaust victims to gain power by manipulating these souls at the time they reincarnate into a new human body. It is thought that Satanic rites (a la Aleister Crowley) may factor into such soul-capture-and-control procedures.
- HAWK: Ernie Kellerstraus, security-cleared for UFO information, worked at Wright-Patterson AFB in the 1970's, and is reported to
have lived with a Star Visitor for a while; reported to have worked with Dale Graff (*HARRIER*?) and Captain Bob Collins (CONDOR), Air
Force Intelligence, to supply UFO information to USAF/AFOSI disinformation operative/ UFOlogist William Moore.
- (Bird name unknown, [PARTRIDGE?]): Jacques Vallee, Ph.D., formerly an astrophysicist with GEPAN, the French Goverrnment's UFO
investigative agency, later moved to U.S. as principal investigator with Defense Department computer network projects; worked with famed
astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek who left and denounced the military's Project Blue Book as a disinformational smokescreen; prolific author
on UFO subject, lately turning to metaphysical explanations for the phenomenon.
- SEAGULL: Bruce Maccabee, Ph.D., research scientist in optical physics and laser weapons applications at the U.S. Naval Surface Weapons Lab, MD; MUFON physics/photo-interpretive consultant, and prolific author and consultant expert on selected leaked or disinformational UFO cases/topics, such as the Gulf Breeze-Ed Walters alleged UFO photos, the Canadian Carp UFO hoaxed incident , and the documented repeat UFO landings at the hyper-secure Manzano Canyon Facility at Kirtland AFB/Sandia National Laboratories-Military Reservation.
- CHICKADEE: Cmdr. C.B. Scott Jones, Ph.D., USN (Ret.), former officer with the Office of Naval Intelligence and other Agencies; with 30 years service in U.S. Intelligence overseas; involved in government research and development projects for the Defense Nuclear Agency (DNA), Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) and other organizations; former Senate aide to Sen. Claiborne Pell, who has had a long-standing interest in UFOs and the paranormal, *and has tried to get Congressional Hearings held on UFOs; President, Human Potential Foundation; and point-man for Laurence Rockefeller on UFO matters, currently tasked to contact world leaders concerning upcoming public announcements of UFO/ET reality; recently convened the May, 1995 Washington, D.C. When Cosmic Cultures Meet International Conference .
- CONDOR: Capt. Bob Collins, USAF (Ret.), Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, engaged in UFO-related intelligence operations; reportedly appeared clandestinely on 1988 Kodak-produced network television (dis-)information program UFO Cover-Up Live , where Collins, *reportedly* along with former CIA contract employee and current UFO-conferences disinformation lecturer, John Lear, presented accounts of alien autopsies, UFO retrievals, and the government's awareness about UFOs and ET presence.
- FALCON: Sgt. Richard Dick Doty, USAF (Ret.), Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, reported to have engaged in UFO disinformation projects, including reportedly hoaxing TV producer Linda Moulton Howe concerning availability of a tape showing a UFO landing at Holloman Air Force Base, NM; and of allegedly waging psychological warfare on Albuquerque defense electronics contractor Paul Bennewitz, concerning Bennewitz's electronic monitoring of UFO activity around Kirtland AFB/Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, reportedly causing/exacerbating a mental breakdown in Mr. Bennewitz. Reportedly, FALCON claims to have seen the Roswell Alien Autopsy film (shown worldwide August 28, 1995) some time ago at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
- (bird-name unknown [SPARROW(?)]: William Moore, USAF (Ret.), Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations; prolific UFO author ; reportedly publicly admitted at a MUFON Conference to being an Air Force Intelligence operative involved in UFO-related disinformation projects.
AVIARY AFFILIATES AUXILIARY:
Besides the main members of The Aviary, ancillary helpers *reportedly* exist who are more or less witting of the purposes and membership of The Aviary, and choose to participate in a variety of supporting roles.
- (Bird name unknown [HERON?]) Dale Graff, UFO-related technology specialist reported by Dan Smith (cf. infra) to be head of the military UFO Working Group at Los Alamos National Laboratory; rumored to be involved in psychotronic and ESP programs at Los Alamos; formerly was contracts overseer for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; then was chief of the DIA's Defense Technology/Special Programs department, before reportedly being fired by the DIA. Currently Graff is reported to be in contact with the human designate who communicates with an extraterrestrial residing near Washington, DC in a subterranean facility (Andrews AFB/Naval Reservation?).
- (bird-name unknown [NIGHTINGALE(?)]): Jack Verona, shadowy liaison between Capitol Hill and Los Alamos National Laboratory, before
having recently disappeared ; reportedly Dale Graff's supervisor: formerly involved in Project Sleeping Beauty, which researched ways to disable enemy target personnel using directed precise-frequency radiated electromagnetic-energy fields. (According to Dan Smith, NIGHTINGALE is not Jack Verona, but rather may be George Wingfield, a British UFO researcher, who has established a reputation as a careful reporter of crop circle
formations and UFO information. NIGHTINGALE is not British UFOlogist Anthony Dodd, who has revealed the disappearance in 1993 of a U.S. carrier destroyer during NATO sea exercises, during which a number of member countries' ships patrolled to find reported huge carrier-sized Unidentified Submerged Objects (USOs), which raced underwater at astounding speeds. Arguing against Mr. Dodd being NIGHTINGALE is the fact that after Dodd disclosed the U.S. destroyer's disappearance at a Nevada UFO Congress in December, 1994, he was beat up outside the conference hall by two enforcer goons and told to shut his mouth up.)
- (Bird name unknown, [BUZZARD?]): Gordon Novell, reportedly a free-lance enforcer involved in Zero Point Energy programs, and tied to
Bob Bigelow, a shadowy Las Vegas casinos operator, who reportedly is investigating alleged ET energy technology and titanium aluminide
mettalurgy for their investment potential. Bigelow has created a National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) to direct a group of UFO technology-insider scientists. He has also reportedly acquired land south of Fort Duschene, Utah to operate a cattle ranch and study alleged cattle mutilations clustered there.
(Bird name unknown, [WOODPECKER?]: Jaime Shandera, a small-time Hollywood film producer, who reportedly is associated with William
Moore. Shandera alleged that he had mysteriously received film containing the MJ-12 documents at his door one day from source(s) unknown. (Moore is considered by some to be the author of the MJ-12 disinformation papers.) Shandera was featured on the 1989 Kodak Television UFO documentary, UFO Cover-Up Live . Shandera is reported to be, along with Scott Jones and Dan Smith, one of the theologically-oriented and pro-UFO-disclosure progressives among the Aviary.
- CHICKEN LITTLE: Dan Smith, civilian UFO researcher/volunteer interlocutor between source(s) within the Central Intelligence Agency, the Congressional Intelligence Committees and the civilian UFO researchers. Smith continually exchanges information with and networks the key UFO researchers, serves as their interlocutor, and shares their and his own findings with his source(s) at CIA and Capitol Hill.
- Undoubtedly, other assets and low-profile intermediaries of The Aviary are operating in the UFO-interest and general public communities, as its surrogate ears and mouthpieces. Whatever the Aviary's role, we the public have a right to full information about extraterrestrial contact and communications. In a democracy, no elite group has the right to bottle up for itself information that affects the lives and futures of us all.
(c) 1995, (1996 revision) Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D.
Dr. Richard Boylan is a behavioral scientist, university instructor,
certified clinical hypnotherapist, and researcher into
extraterrestrial-human encounters.
Richard Boylan, Ph.D., LLC, Post Office Box 22310, Sacramento,
California 95822, United States of America. Phone: (916) 422-7400
PST. E-mail: drylan@sbcglobal.net WEBSITE: http://www.drboylan.com
You are invited to join the UFOFacts internet reports-and-
communications list; moderated by Dr. Boylan: (subscribe by sending
an e-mail to: UFOFacts-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Did Paul Bennewitz know the Truth
Use of "{}" and "()" brackets, along with CAPITALIZATION and
underlining "___" are evidently the work of the author of
this transcript. Additionally, all personal comments and
characterizations contained within, are also of the author's.
"PJK:" = Phillip J. Klass
"RCD:" = Richard C. Doty
=======================================================================
=======================================================================
Richard (Rick) C. Doty: Telephone interview: Jan. 8, 1988
(Highlight/Excerpts)
1. Says unable to meet with PJK this weekend, will not be in the area, returning Thursday/Friday.
2. He asked what he could do for me and I said I wanted to get him (sic) comments on allegations against him in Just Cause and in MUFOn (sic) Journal. Said he has seen both.
PJK: Are you planning to take any action?
RCD: I've already taken action. I've an attorney that last summer took some action on my behalf regarding the allegation that I allegedly had leaked these documents. {{PJK Note: But that allegation would not (sic) made publicly by Greenwood until Sept. 1987}} And Greenwood, Gersten, Moore and a couple other people were involved. WELL, I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT SIGNED BY BILL MOORE THAT WAS EXECUTED IN COURT WITH MY ATTORNEY PRESENT THAT SAYS THAT BILL MOORE NEVER, EVER RECEIVED ANYTHING FROM ME OTHER THAN SOME BITS AND PIECES ABOUT AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED AT KIRTLAND IN 1980. {{PJK doubts this could have occurred in the few months since allegations were made public.}}
"HE GAVE THE PERSON'S NAME IN THE AFFIDAVIT THAT HE RECEIVED THE DOCUMENTS FROM, AND THIS PERSON--I DON'T KNOW HIM--THIS PERSON IS IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND MY ATTORNEY WENT TO WASHINGTON D.C. AND SPOKE TO THIS PERSON AND HE DENIED EVER GIVING BILL MOORE ANYTHING ALTHOUGH HE SAID HE HAD REGULAR CONTACT WITH BILL MOORE. {{PJK: Very doubtful claim}}
So, allegedly, Peter Gersten was given this information and then apologized saying that they never had any concrete information that I had given him anything anyways, but they had kind of put two and two together and thought that it must have come from me.
PJK: You say that Moore signed an affidavit. Have you made that affidavit public?
RCD: No, no I haven't.
PJK: Do you plan to?
RCD: I don't know. It's up to the attorney. Again, this happened last year and I have had (sic) any further contact with MUFON or the CAUS
people. {He later changes this story.} When that article came I was inundated with phone calls and letters and people trying to interview me
saying they want to know what this is all about. And I don't even know, I didn't know, I didn't see these documents until October or November.
{NOTE: he is referring to the MJ-12 papers, which were first made public in late May/early June, 1987}
And I too (sic) one look at them and said, these are phony. (Laughs) These aren't even credible documents. What I was shown had some legitimate documents in that was obtained FOIA but these other ones that were released--apparently Bill Moore released it in some kind of a news release.
He claimed to have gotten these in (PJK: In December, 1984). Well I wasn't even in the country, nor would anyone have had access to me in
1984. All these things were started in the lawyer's--I can't remember what the legal term was he used--but the court document refuting the claim
that I gave him.
PJK: Would you be willing to give me the name of your lawyer?
RCD: Ah, I can give him your name and he can contact you. But why would you want to know that?
PJK: (Explains I am long-time UFO skeptic/investigator, that if MJ-12 papers were authentic, it would be biggest story for AW&ST. So I dug
into MJ-12, found evidence to indicate they are a hoax.)
RCD: Yeah, you just have to look at them. A fifth grader could tell they're not properly classified and down grade instructions. I've been
working in classified for 20 years, from all levels. When my lawyer showed me copies of them--and my lawyer is retired military, of course,
and he could tell they're phony.
Apparently Gersten's crew knew they were phony.
PJK: (Explains prevailing view among UFO believers is that MJ-12 is a hoax, but question is who is responsible for producing them.)
RCD: WELL, THE FBI KNOWS THAT. THE FBI KNOWS WHO DID IT. THAT INFORMATION WAS PROVIDED TO THE FBI, THE FBI INTERVIEWED THIS PERSON AND OF COURSE THIS PERSON DENIED HE EVER GAVE THEM TO HIM (Moore).
But I think what this person did was he created the documents--I don't know if Bill Moore was actually involved in it, I don't think he was,
but it's a possibility.
The FBI never pursued it, I don't know why, unless they just couldn't. I don't know if there was any law that this guy broke. I don't if that is public record or not, but you'd have to go to the FBI to find out.BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THEY INTERVIEWED HIM--THIS PERSON IN WASHINGTON D.C.
PJK: And about when would that have been?
RCD: Ah, gee, last year (ie. 1987)
PJK: How would the FBI have located this person in Washington--I'll call him Mr. X--
RCD: As a matter of fact that's what William Moore called him, Mr. X.
PJK: Are you suggesting that Moore told the FBI who X is?
RCD: I don't. To tell you the truth I don't remember how--and I don't even know if I was privvy (sic) to that information as to how the FBI found ought (sic) who this guy was, but I think that after this stuff came out the Justice Dept. investigated it or made some inquiries or something and then found out, I don't know how. I don't have that information.
---------------------------------------------------------
PJK then raises allegations made by CAUS and reads the first: "In 1984, Linda Moulton Howe, who produced the well-known cattle mutilation film STRANGE HARVEST, was contacted by a government source {{CAUS later identifies this source as Doty}} to aid in producing a UFO documentary, essentially providing the answer to UFOs. She was invited by the source, briefed on the story, then sworn to secrecy about it until the film's eventual release. The deal was never completed. Details of the story given to her match the MJ-12 tale, along with much extra detail about contacts with 'EBES' {{Extraterrestrial Biological Entities}}, Nordic type aliens called 'Highs' and conflicting alien factions."
What can you tell me about your contact with her?
RCD: (Laughs) OK. In my duties, in my official government duties I made contact with her AND I CAN'T TELL YOU WHY, I made contact with her for information that she had that she was willing to share with us. The information had nothing to do with UFOs, absolutely nothing to do with UFOs. {{PJK note: Howe is a slightly wacky free-lance TV producer who focuses on UFOs, cattle mutilations, UFO-abductions, etc.
--What kind of info would she have that Doty would seek "in an official" capacity--and which is so sensitive he could not tell me??}}
When she found out I was with a government agency and I was the same one that had investigated the (UFO) incident (at Kirtland) in 1980, she started asking me questions about UFOs, about what I thought about UFOs, and what my beliefs were about them, and if I could tell her anything about what the government had. And I told her, I don't know very much. I can tell you what happened at Kirtland, because I investigated it. Probably it can be explained away.
She said that she had been involved with Budd Hopkins and a number of people who claimed to have been abducted (by UFOs) and then she gives me this whole story about aliens abducting people, and they're called EBES, and then she said she had a contact--I later found out who
it was--that had showed her some government documents pertaining to MJ-12 and all this other stuff.
But I never, ever originated any contact regarding UFOs with her. Because of our continuing interest in what she was doing--NOT UFOs but
to something else--she would ask me questions like what do you think about this, what do you thing (sic) about that?
I can tell you that in 1985, excuse me in May, 1986, I TOOK AN EXTENSIVE POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION PERTAINING TO AN ALLEGATION SHE HAD MADE AND I PASSED IT, A GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED POLYGRAPH, SHOWING I WAS THE ONE TELLING THE TRUTH AND SHE WAS THE ONE LYING.
PJK asks if Howe took a Polygraph test and he says no.
RCD: There was another person involved in this who took a polygraph test and failed it. That's why I say I know where she got the information from. Because this person REFUSED (??) AND QUIT GOVERNMENT SERVICE AT THE TIME. Anyway, she would sit down and talk to me for hours about UFOs, but she would do all the talking. She had everything already figured out. She claimed that well I know there's a ship FLYING ABOVE THE ARCTIC THAT ARE COLLECTING SOULS AND THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SOULS AND THEY HAVE TO BE REGENERATED. JUST INCREDIBLE STUFF. SHE BELIEVES ALL THESE ABDUCTEES...
I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, AND I HAVE NOTHING TO BACK THIS UP, STRICTLY UNOFFICIAL, BUT I WAS TOLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AFTER HOPKINS WORTE HIS (first) BOOK, CALLED MISSING TIME, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WENT TO THESE PEOPLE (i.e. "abductees") AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME INFORMATION TO THE GOVERNMENT AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE REPUDIATED WHAT THEY TOLD HOPKINS. NOW THAT'S WHAT I WAS TOLD.
Anyway, I never told her and showed her anything, except what we were doing on the other project. She just made that up, she exaggerated...
she's jsut so hung up you can't talk about anything else (with her).
PJK: Then reads a second allegation: "CAUS Director, Peter Gersten, in a visit with a military intelligence source at Kirtland AFB in 1983 {{later identified as Doty}} was informed of a wide range of bizarre UFO stories. Included were comments on a briefing paper on UFOs for President
Carter, the Cash/Landrum (incident) being a government exploitation of UFO technology- ...Bill Moore being 'right on' with Roswell (crashed
saucer), and an admission that the original Project Acquarius (sic) cable (TWX) ...was retyped and not an original cable. This cable was the
first mention anywhere of MJ-12 and Project Acquarius (sic)."
RCD: (Laughs) Gersten came out, I don't even remember when it was, and somebody from California, some television official from California.
Gersten had spoke to me on the telephone several days before and said he'd like to get in touch with me about this 1980 Kirtland incident.
So I agreed to meet with him.
And he sat there and asked me a number of questions about UFOs and I answered him LIKE I WAS TOLD TO ANSWER HIM. The meeting was official insofar as my capacity.
PJK: Do you have a tape recording of that meeting?
RCD: Oh yes.
PJK: Where would that be, in OSI files?
RCD: I can't disclose. I'm not going to comment on that. But when I confronted Peter Gersten some time later, after my attorney did, he shut right up, suspecting that it was recorded and knowing that he's lying. I told him if he wants to go to court--I told him in a telephone conversation I did--if you want to go to court, I've got the evidence to prove you wrong. And he just shut his mouth.
Now I'm not going to go into that because there's another aspect involved that I can't discuss. {{RCD FREQUENTLY IMPLIES THAT HE CANNOT DISCUSS SOMETHING BECAUSE OF SENSITIVITY, I.E. SECURITY.}} The only conversation I had with Gersten was RIGHT OUTSIDE A HOTEL. HE WANTED TO MEET ME ALONE, GETTING BACK TO THE CONVERSATION IN THE RESTAURANT. IT WAS STRICTLY HIM ASKING ME QUESTIONS AND ME DENYING THEM. "I don't know what you're talking about. No, I don't know about this, or that."
He asked me about the UFO in Texas that exploded and hurt somebody [PJK: The Cash-Landrum case]. I said I know nothing about that. HE was the one who said I understand it was a recovered alien craft, flown by the government--his source had told him that. I said, well, I don't know. {{PJK: Gersten was the lawyer for Ms. Cash and Ms. Landrum who sued USAF for $10 million for alleged injuries.}}
Anyways, he asked me, well I don't remember now. But he asked me a lot of questions but I never once provided, not one bit of information to him, or to anyone else. (laughs) Come on now, I wouldn't be fool enough to do that. Well, anyway he said he wanted to meet me later near his hotel where he was staying and I agreed with that. {{Strange behaviour if RCD could not or did not want to answer Gersten's questions.}} The coversation (sic) wasn't recorded.
He showed me a document that was allegedly a teletype message that was sent from ah, I think it was sent from Washington to OSI Detachment or district headquarters at Kirtland, I believe that was the routing. Any way, (sic) I looked at the document and said gee this is an inaccurate document. And he said, why? And I said, well in a classified document each paragraph is classified and in this document the paragraphs were not classified. The top marking said it was supposedly secret.
And he said, well read it, and I read it and said well it appears to me that somebody retyped this and typed this up. And he said, do you think it's based on an actual document, and I said, well, I said, it could be based on an actual document but I'm not going to say it was. Now, years later, it was based on an actual document that was typed. However, SOMEBODY ADDED A LOT OF FABRICATION TO IT, A LOT OF JUNK TO IT.
Now, who I think did it is Richard Todd {{A UFOlogist in Penn. or N.J. who is active investigator using FOIA) ...He sent documents to the government which were forged and he said in his letter, these are forged documents, don't you think they're great. I mean they had all sorts of code words in them, unbelieveable. And I think that somebody provided some information to Todd or Gersten and then they exaggerated all the rest of it. Probably from the FOIA documents that were released in 1980, or whenever they were released.
So that was it. And then about a month later Gersten called me back and said HEY, CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME MORE INFORMATION. AND I SAID, NO I GAVE YOU--HE WANTED ME TO COMMENT MORE ON THE DOCUMENT, THE MJ-12 AND ACQUARIUS. AND THEN HE PROBABLY CALLED ME SEVERAL TIMES AFTER THAT BUT I NEVER HAD ANY, NEVER VOLUNTEERED ANY INFORMATION. I'M A PROFESSIONAL INTELLIGENCE PERSON AND I KNOW WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT NOT TO SAY, AND I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T TELL ANYBODY ANYTHING THAT WOULD GET ME IN TROUBLE.
PJK: Asks if he is due to retire soon.
RCD: Yes
PJK: What are you going to be doing then?
RCD: I have a business.
(PJK offers to reimburse him for this long-distance call)
RCD: I'd just as soon put this thing to rest, and I thought it was at rest once before. And I wouldn't even have spoke to you BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SPOKE TO ANY ONE ELSE {{CONTRADICTS EARLIER STATEMENT ABOUT MANY PHONE CALLS, INTERVIEWS}}
BUT A HIGH OFFICIAL WITHIN DOD CONTACTED ME AFTER I TALKED WITH GEORGE PEARCE AND SAID NO, I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO ANYBODY. BUT THIS OFFICIAL FROM DOD CONTACTED ME AND SAID THAT YOU (pjk) WERE LEGITIMATE AND YOU WOULD REBUT THESE, SO I SAID SURE, AS LONG AS HE'S GOING TO PRESS THE TRUTH AND NOT EXAGGERATE LIKE ALL THESE PEOPLE, I'LL BE HAPPY TO TALK TO HIM.
{{After this telcon, PJK called Col. David Shea, to thank him for calling RCD, only to be told that Shea did NOT talk to Doty, but to George Pearce--P.I.O. at Kirtland--SO CLEARLY RCD WAS NOT BEING FULLY TRUTHFUL IN ABOVE CLAIM--BUT TRYING TO MAKE HIMSELF SOUND IMPRESSIVE.}}
PJK: Asks for RCD's suspicions as to who composed MJ-12 documents. "What about Bill Moore"?
RCD: No. I'VE HAD A NUMBER OF CONTACTS WITH HIM. TO TELL THE TRUTH, I DON'T THINK HE HAS THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO THAT. Now he could probably have helped.
I KNOW SOME THINGS THAT YOU DON'T--THE GOVERNMENT I SHOULD SAY--KNEW SOME THINGS ABOUT HIM THAT MAYBE OTHER PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, THAT WOULD INDICATE TO ME THAT I DON'T THINK HE WOULD DO IT. NOW THAT'S MY FEELING. MAYBE HE DID, I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WITHIN DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency] who is a good friend of Emmeneger--do you know a guy name of Emmeneger ...he's a person who wrote a book about a Holloman incident in 1964-- he wrote it in 1972 or 1973--supposedly a UFO landed at Holloman Air Force Base--and this Emmenger (sic) wrote a book and he allegedly based it on information that was provided to him by DIA officials in Washington. I never read the book....
PJK: When is the incident supposed to have occurred?
RCD: In 1964. HOLLOMAN AF BASE INCIDENT WHERE A UFO ALLEGEDLY LANDED RIGHT ON THE BASE AND IT WAS FLOWN INTO A HANGER AND THE BASE COMMANDER AND EVERYBODY GOT OUT THERE AND MET THE ALIENS. EMMENEGER SUPPOSEDLY WAS ALLOWED TO SEE HIGHLY CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS IN THE PENTAGON REGARDING THIS INCIDENT AND THEN HE WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT--1973 OR 1974.
PJK: But why would they send it (MJ-12 papers) to Jamie Shandera
RCD: WHO?
PJK: Nobody in the UFO Movement had ever heard of Jamie Shandera
RCD: WHO?
PJK: Shandera is the guy who allegedly received the MJ-12 documents on a roll of unprocessed 35 mm. film.
RCD: Well, I don't know him. {{PJK believes he is telling truth, based on his reactions above--unless RCD is a clever actor.}} That's probably just a name that Moore uses. Is this guy an actual person?
PJK: Yeah, I've met him. He's a TV producer in southern California. (PJK explores why film was sent to Shandera instead of Moore.)
RCD: My gut feeling, but don't quote me, my gut feel is that THOSE (MJ-12) DOCUMENTS WERE ORIGINATED BY A PERSON WITHIN DIA AND THAT THEY WERE SENT TO MOORE OR TO WHOMEVER THIS OTHER GUY IS, IN ORDER TO DISCREDIT THEM.
MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT IT WAS A GOVERNMENT OPERATION. (i.e. government disinformation) I WASN'T INVOLVED IN IT. But it was a government operation.
PJK (plays devil's advocate to challenge his theory)
RCD: Well, maybe Mr. X thought it was such a good piece of forgery that Moore--without ever having been in government service or the
military--wouldn't recognize it (as a forgery). And they would be so fascinating to Moore
PJK: Then goes into anomaly in the date format used in MJ-12 briefing document--same curious format used by William Moore.
RCD: Well, you're seeing things that I didn't see. Maybe he did do it.
PJK then offered to send him copy of my upcoming article in Skeptical Inquirer, and he expressed interest:
PJK asked for mailing address and RCD gave military address, not home address:
Richard C. Doty
1606 SVS/SVF
Kirtland AFB, N.M. 87117
When PJK asked: "and is that Master Sergeant," there was a long pause and he answered "yeah, you can put Master Sergeant."
PJK: My advice to you would be that I think that you or your lawyer ought to write a letter to CAUS or to the MUFON UFO Journal and ask
that it be published, denying those things that you feel you should deny.
RCD: OK Well, see, we did that. We wrote to the publishers of the newsletters {{Note PLURAL--yet MUFON report just came out about a week ago.}} but they didn't publish em.
PJK: Well, if you did that, I would very much like to get a copy. In other words, if you wrote it, intending for it to be made public, then
there certainly is no reason for it to be kept secret.
RCD: OK, what's your address.
PJK: Supplied same.
RCD: Yeah, I'll be more than happy to send you a, I'll dig 'em up.
(Don't hold your breath until they arrive.)
When PJK asks if he will stay in Albuquerque after he retires, he said he will stay in New Mexico, explains he went to school out here and his
father is ex-military.
When PJK asks if his father was in Army or AF, he replies:
RCD: Air Force, and he had something to do with Blue Book, too.
PJK: Tell me more about that.
RCD: Well, he was an investigator for Blue Book, he was at Holloman from 1962 to 1966, four years. He was involved in the Lonnie Zamora
case {{1964 "UFO landing"" at Socorro}}. Edward Doty, if you've ever seen any documents you'll see his name on it.
PJK: Is he still alive?
RCD: Yes, he's still alive. But he doesn't talk about it. The ironic thing, we were at Holloman, living, in 1964 and if anyone would have known
about the landing of that spacecraft, my Dad would have, and he says baloney, nothing like that ever happened.
PJK: Again invited him to send me the telephone bill and I would pay for it.
-------------------------------------------------------------
PJK Characterization based on this telecon:
| Print References for this Article: |
- Out There by Howard Blum
- Alien Contact by Timothy Good
- Watch the Skies by Curtis Peebles
- Revelations by Jacques Vallee
--- In ufos-unbound@yahoogroups.com, dee777@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/4/2004 4:04:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> dexxxaa@e... writes:
I'd like to add something I think hasn't been talked about or mentioned concerning the girl abducted by the Dulce group. While
her brief stay in their underground laboratory and witnessing those large vats of blue swirl with human parts floating about, she also told
Paul Bennewitz and Maj. Edwards, upon her return, the alien in charge pointed out to her a vat that contained an intact body form of a
different type of alien, probably belonging to another ET group, had said to her this one was a personal enemy of his. Paul was repulsed
by the ghoulishness of these aliens and wanted to rid the world of them. Paul's experiences with these aliens haven't surfaced
completely in the public domain. I haven't told everything I know about Paul sorry to say, But his is a remarkable story. I'm sorry
that because of his eventual breakdown and of his recent passing, excluding those who personally knew him, most researchers are now
more inclined to think he was crazy all along. Discrediting an impressive individual who's exposure of the violating groups kicked
off awareness of the siege mind set of these off world intelligence.
Dex
From: dee777@aol.com
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:24 am
Subject: Re: [DrRichBoylanReports] The Aviary
In a message dated 2/12/2004
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Boylan, Ph.D. [mailto:drboylan@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:21 PM
To: DrRichBoylanReports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DrRichBoylanReports] The Aviary
Birds of a Feather No Longer: Policy Split Divides Aviary UFO- Secrecy Group
by
Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D.
(c)1995
Since a time apparently in the 1970s, a number of individuals with extremely high security clearances, who were working on various aspects of the UFO phenomenon, began to interact with each other on a regular basis to pool the information each had from their highly- compartmented assignments. The objective was to coordinate data, see the big picture about UFOs and extraterrestrial contacts with Earth, and to use this privileged information pool to gain access to additional secret data, to understand the policies of the elite, hypersecret Majestic-12 (MJ-12) UFO information-control and policy group, and to gain special influence through having this highly- privileged information.
This elite group of perhaps 14 individuals working in National Security assignments eventually gave themselves code-names, using mostly bird names. Collectively, they came to be called The Aviary (bird enclosure). A reader warning is in order: This affiliative network may exist as reported, or the accounts of this grouping may include disinformation generated by The Aviary themselves to obscure their membership.
The relationship of The Aviary to the MJ-12 (ultimate UFO information control and policy) Group is murky. It is the estimate of more than one UFO researcher that there is some overlap in membership; meaning that MJ-12 has quietly infiltrated The Aviary to keep tabs on it and to keep it under control.
It has been reported by Dr. Steven Greer, Director of the Center for the Study of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (CSETI), that the MJ-12 Group is now designated as PI-40, [Personal communication, January, 1995]. This hyper-classified group deals with the most sensitive compartmented information regarding extraterrestrials, and is so covert a Special Access Program, that reportedly the President and Congress do not exercise control over PI-40, and only know of its existence through rumor.
Dick D'Amato, National and International Security Specialist for Senator Robert Byrd, and a member of the National Security Council (NSC), in 1991, stated that UFO information should be released, but that an incredibly powerful black arm of the government has been keeping it secret, and spending enormous sums of money illegally in this operation. D'Amato said that the NSC is trying to find out who these people are. [Personal communication with Jesse Marcel, Jr., M.D., Washington, D.C., 1991; as reported in eUFOria, the Black Hills UFO Network Publication, 2:2, May, 1995.]
Ironically, the answer may be right under their noses. It is quite possible that PI-40 exists within a hyper-compartmented Special Access Program, yet with informal informational links to the National Security Council's 5240 [Black Projects] Committee. [Timothy Good, Above Top Secret, 1983; L. Fletcher Prouty, The Secret Team, 1973.]
While there may be some overlap between The Aviary and the PI-40 group, they remain two separate entities. PI-40 is clearly at the top; for PI-40 is the policy and decision group who have orchestrated the UFO Cover-Up since 1947, while simultaneously releasing little fragments of UFO/Star Visitor information, to gradually condition the American public to the slowly-dawning realization of UFO reality.
The Aviary is the group of individuals with histories of working in UFO-related National Security projects who have obtained more complete information (and thus power) by closely coordinating the data, informants, and efforts each is involved with. Now, leaked reports from sources close to some Aviary members suggest that there is a split within the Aviary, (which may well mirror a split within the PI-40 group.)
On one side are those members of The Aviary who feel that the time has come when information about UFO reality and ET contacts should
be broadly disclosed to the public. These Good Guys feel that the public is ready for this information, and generally can handle it. Others within the Aviary, on the Dark Side , resist such disclosure. The Dark Side members do not want to lose the power which a UFO/ET-information monoploy has given them. From their behavior, it appears that they do not welcome close public scrutiny of their role in the UFO Cover- Up. Additionally, one or two among them have reportedly engaged in not-properly-authorized, illegal, and sometimes injurious projects and operations. The split over disclosure versus maintaining the Cover-Up is creating a climate where there are increasing leaks, as the Good Guys try to force disclosure, and establish for themselves a track record of belated candor with the American public. It is important not to demonize all the reported members of The Aviary. Most are presumably well-intentioned scientists or (former) military or intelligence officers, with careers spanning the Cold War, and who no doubt sincerely believed that UFO secrecy was vital to maintain. Any crimes committed by those few of the Dark Side will have to be determined in a proper military or civilian court of jurisdiction.
The following is a list of reported members of The Aviary. - BLUEJAY: Dr. Christopher Kit Green, MD, Ph.D., Chief, Biomedical Sciences Department, General Motors; former custodian of the CIA's UFO files at the Weird Desk ; received the National Intelligence Medal for his work on a classified project during the period of 1979- 1983; recently reported to be White House UFO liason. - PELICAN: Ron Pandolfi, CIA Deputy Director for the Division of Science and Technology, and current custodian of UFO files at the Weird Desk ; involved in the White House Initiative, as UFO liaison, to expedite (at Laurence Rockefeller's behest) the release of UFO information to the public; and has been quietly leaking UFO information the past few years.
- OWL: Hal Puthoff, physicist with the Institute for Advanced research in Austin, TX who specializes in Zero-Point Energy, a quantum/resonance physics phenomenon with reported potential for above- unity ( free ) energy; formerly an Stanford Research Institute (SRI) and reported DIA researcher, (along with psi guru and fellow Scientologist Ingo Swann,) into parapsychological, psychotronic, remote-viewing, and mind-control projects, and reportedly involved in classified ET-technology studies.
- RAVEN: (Identity not yet determined.) RAVEN appears to be a kingpin in The Aviary, and a Washington insiders' guessing game has sprung up, as devotees of UFO intelligence data argue for the probable identity of their favorite candidate . [Possible candidates: Henry Kissinger, Ph.D., Edward Teller, Ph.D.; General Brent Scowcroft.]
- PENGUIN: John Alexander, Ph.D. in Death Sciences [Thanatology], Col., ( Ret. ), U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command
(INSCOM), which is undoubtedly his military cover for the National Security Agency (NSA). Colonel Alexander is director of the Non- Lethal (sic) Weapons Department, Los Alamos National Laboratory
[LANL], and has been reportedly involved in counter-intelligence remote-viewing, psychic-warfare, psychotronic and mind-control projects with military/security applications, while maintaining the cover of nonlethal military/crowd control physical-countermeasures research. Dr. Alexander is a Board Member, (along with INSCOM General Al Stubblebine and INSCOM Major Ed Dames), of PSI-Tech Corporation, involved in proprietary remote- viewing projects. 2003 Update Note: Colonel John Penguin Alexander was spotted last year by this author at a retired intelligence officers dinner function at Sixth Army Headquarters, The Presidio, San Francisco. Alexander had become bloated, and was accompanied by his life- partner, Victoria Lacas, dressed as always in faux-Goth all-black, (which does nothing to dispel rumors circulating in the ufological community about reported interest in sorcery.) This author has been informed that Alexander is head of the Aviary, and that the Aviary
is headquartered at LANL. This author has heard from a source that one or more members of the Aviary are believed to have been a party to MILABS operations, (rogue military-intelligence units kidnapping, interrogation, terrorizing, drugging, and hypnotic mind-control programming of
innocent civilians, and implanting of a false post-hypnotic memory that the episode was an alien abduction .) This author has also learned that one or more members of the Aviary are thought to have engaged in seeking to control the souls of Holocaust victims to gain power by manipulating these souls at the time they reincarnate into a new human body. It is thought that Satanic rites (a la Aleister Crowley) may factor into such soul-capture-and-control procedures.
- HAWK: Ernie Kellerstraus, security-cleared for UFO information, worked at Wright-Patterson AFB in the 1970's, and is reported to
have lived with a Star Visitor for a while; reported to have worked with Dale Graff (*HARRIER*?) and Captain Bob Collins (CONDOR), Air
Force Intelligence, to supply UFO information to USAF/AFOSI disinformation operative/ UFOlogist William Moore.
- (Bird name unknown, [PARTRIDGE?]): Jacques Vallee, Ph.D., formerly an astrophysicist with GEPAN, the French Goverrnment's UFO
investigative agency, later moved to U.S. as principal investigator with Defense Department computer network projects; worked with famed
astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek who left and denounced the military's Project Blue Book as a disinformational smokescreen; prolific author
on UFO subject, lately turning to metaphysical explanations for the phenomenon.
- SEAGULL: Bruce Maccabee, Ph.D., research scientist in optical physics and laser weapons applications at the U.S. Naval Surface Weapons Lab, MD; MUFON physics/photo-interpretive consultant, and prolific author and consultant expert on selected leaked or disinformational UFO cases/topics, such as the Gulf Breeze-Ed Walters alleged UFO photos, the Canadian Carp UFO hoaxed incident , and the documented repeat UFO landings at the hyper-secure Manzano Canyon Facility at Kirtland AFB/Sandia National Laboratories-Military Reservation.
- CHICKADEE: Cmdr. C.B. Scott Jones, Ph.D., USN (Ret.), former officer with the Office of Naval Intelligence and other Agencies; with 30 years service in U.S. Intelligence overseas; involved in government research and development projects for the Defense Nuclear Agency (DNA), Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) and other organizations; former Senate aide to Sen. Claiborne Pell, who has had a long-standing interest in UFOs and the paranormal, *and has tried to get Congressional Hearings held on UFOs; President, Human Potential Foundation; and point-man for Laurence Rockefeller on UFO matters, currently tasked to contact world leaders concerning upcoming public announcements of UFO/ET reality; recently convened the May, 1995 Washington, D.C. When Cosmic Cultures Meet International Conference .
- CONDOR: Capt. Bob Collins, USAF (Ret.), Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, engaged in UFO-related intelligence operations; reportedly appeared clandestinely on 1988 Kodak-produced network television (dis-)information program UFO Cover-Up Live , where Collins, *reportedly* along with former CIA contract employee and current UFO-conferences disinformation lecturer, John Lear, presented accounts of alien autopsies, UFO retrievals, and the government's awareness about UFOs and ET presence.
- FALCON: Sgt. Richard Dick Doty, USAF (Ret.), Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, reported to have engaged in UFO disinformation projects, including reportedly hoaxing TV producer Linda Moulton Howe concerning availability of a tape showing a UFO landing at Holloman Air Force Base, NM; and of allegedly waging psychological warfare on Albuquerque defense electronics contractor Paul Bennewitz, concerning Bennewitz's electronic monitoring of UFO activity around Kirtland AFB/Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, reportedly causing/exacerbating a mental breakdown in Mr. Bennewitz. Reportedly, FALCON claims to have seen the Roswell Alien Autopsy film (shown worldwide August 28, 1995) some time ago at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
- (bird-name unknown [SPARROW(?)]: William Moore, USAF (Ret.), Special Agent, Air Force Office of Special Investigations; prolific UFO author ; reportedly publicly admitted at a MUFON Conference to being an Air Force Intelligence operative involved in UFO-related disinformation projects.
AVIARY AFFILIATES AUXILIARY:
Besides the main members of The Aviary, ancillary helpers *reportedly* exist who are more or less witting of the purposes and membership of The Aviary, and choose to participate in a variety of supporting roles.
- (Bird name unknown [HERON?]) Dale Graff, UFO-related technology specialist reported by Dan Smith (cf. infra) to be head of the military UFO Working Group at Los Alamos National Laboratory; rumored to be involved in psychotronic and ESP programs at Los Alamos; formerly was contracts overseer for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; then was chief of the DIA's Defense Technology/Special Programs department, before reportedly being fired by the DIA. Currently Graff is reported to be in contact with the human designate who communicates with an extraterrestrial residing near Washington, DC in a subterranean facility (Andrews AFB/Naval Reservation?).
- (bird-name unknown [NIGHTINGALE(?)]): Jack Verona, shadowy liaison between Capitol Hill and Los Alamos National Laboratory, before
having recently disappeared ; reportedly Dale Graff's supervisor: formerly involved in Project Sleeping Beauty, which researched ways to disable enemy target personnel using directed precise-frequency radiated electromagnetic-energy fields. (According to Dan Smith, NIGHTINGALE is not Jack Verona, but rather may be George Wingfield, a British UFO researcher, who has established a reputation as a careful reporter of crop circle
formations and UFO information. NIGHTINGALE is not British UFOlogist Anthony Dodd, who has revealed the disappearance in 1993 of a U.S. carrier destroyer during NATO sea exercises, during which a number of member countries' ships patrolled to find reported huge carrier-sized Unidentified Submerged Objects (USOs), which raced underwater at astounding speeds. Arguing against Mr. Dodd being NIGHTINGALE is the fact that after Dodd disclosed the U.S. destroyer's disappearance at a Nevada UFO Congress in December, 1994, he was beat up outside the conference hall by two enforcer goons and told to shut his mouth up.)
- (Bird name unknown, [BUZZARD?]): Gordon Novell, reportedly a free-lance enforcer involved in Zero Point Energy programs, and tied to
Bob Bigelow, a shadowy Las Vegas casinos operator, who reportedly is investigating alleged ET energy technology and titanium aluminide
mettalurgy for their investment potential. Bigelow has created a National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) to direct a group of UFO technology-insider scientists. He has also reportedly acquired land south of Fort Duschene, Utah to operate a cattle ranch and study alleged cattle mutilations clustered there.
(Bird name unknown, [WOODPECKER?]: Jaime Shandera, a small-time Hollywood film producer, who reportedly is associated with William
Moore. Shandera alleged that he had mysteriously received film containing the MJ-12 documents at his door one day from source(s) unknown. (Moore is considered by some to be the author of the MJ-12 disinformation papers.) Shandera was featured on the 1989 Kodak Television UFO documentary, UFO Cover-Up Live . Shandera is reported to be, along with Scott Jones and Dan Smith, one of the theologically-oriented and pro-UFO-disclosure progressives among the Aviary.
- CHICKEN LITTLE: Dan Smith, civilian UFO researcher/volunteer interlocutor between source(s) within the Central Intelligence Agency, the Congressional Intelligence Committees and the civilian UFO researchers. Smith continually exchanges information with and networks the key UFO researchers, serves as their interlocutor, and shares their and his own findings with his source(s) at CIA and Capitol Hill.
- Undoubtedly, other assets and low-profile intermediaries of The Aviary are operating in the UFO-interest and general public communities, as its surrogate ears and mouthpieces. Whatever the Aviary's role, we the public have a right to full information about extraterrestrial contact and communications. In a democracy, no elite group has the right to bottle up for itself information that affects the lives and futures of us all.
(c) 1995, (1996 revision) Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D.
Dr. Richard Boylan is a behavioral scientist, university instructor,
certified clinical hypnotherapist, and researcher into
extraterrestrial-human encounters.
Richard Boylan, Ph.D., LLC, Post Office Box 22310, Sacramento,
California 95822, United States of America. Phone: (916) 422-7400
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Did Paul Bennewitz know the Truth
or did he believe a Lie?
Paul Bennewitz is probably more responsible than anyone else for bringing the enigmatic Dulce Base controversy to public attention. Whether the scenario taking place at Dulce involves extraterrestrial craft, abductions, and aliens or a more down-to-earth scenario involving antigravity technology, mind control, and genetic experimentation by a fascist military-industrial fraternity [or a combination of the two!?], the fact is that -- as many believe -- there IS SOMETHING going on there, and Paul Bennewitz was caught right in the middle of it. Bennewitz accuses William Moore and Richard Doty of stealing vital evidence from his home during uninvited visits with him. Moore himself "admitted" feeding Bennewitz with "disinformation" and that's where all of Bennewitz's wild claims originated. However SINCE WHEN DO DISINFORMATION AGENTS EXPOSE THEMSELVES AS DECIEVERS!? Was there a specific reason for doing so? Many have become convinced that because of Moore's "admittance" that he/they created the entire story of an underground facility beneath Dulce, the base must NOT exist. But if such a base DID exist then this would be the IDEAL move for the intelligence community to make in order to keep the secret under wraps, i.e. "...since Moore and Doty admitted to making up the whole story and fed this 'disinformation' to Bennewitz, then the Dulce base must NOT exist!" Are we looking at some kind of reverse psychology disinformation at work here!? Moore's claims might hold water IF not for the fact that much of Bennewitz's information could NOT have originated from Moore, et al... and if not for the fact that literally DOZENS of other independent sources [see link above] have ALSO confirmed that something strange IS taking place near this small town in northwestern New Mexico...
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