Cannon

Meeting: UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING, 1988

Speaker: Martin Cannon

Subject: UFOs and Mind Control

[THIS IS A TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED TALK GIVEN BY MARTIN CANNON VIA

TELEPHONE

TO THE UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING IN 1988.

BECAUSE

IT IS A TRANSCRIPTION, SOME OF THE NAMES MAY BE INCORRECTLY

SPELLED, BUT

THE CONTENT OF THE INFORMATION RELAYED REMAINS 100% ACCURATE.]

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

All I can say is that I have been, for over a year now, pursuing a

specific theory of UFO abductions which has royally ticked off

everybody

that I've come in contact with -- believer and skeptic alike.

This is a theory that, I think, designed to make me hate it. I'm

primarily interested in the government's involvement in the UFO

phenomena.

Specifically, it seems to me, and I might as well lay out all my

cards

on the table at once, it seems to me the abduction phenomenon might

just

be a ploy, that the aliens are a paper-mache mask, as I sometimes put

it, for something else that's really going on.

All theories of UFO abductions that I've ever come across

(excepting the

entirely skeptical ones put out by people like Philip Klass), they

all

include some aspect of the concept of mind control. Now it seems to

me

that if people's minds are being controlled, and I think that this

technology is in existence, then we have to ask the question: can we

trust the participant's reports of what they are seeing, in terms of

perhaps even the UFO's that they are seeing, but certainly the

nature of

the abduction experience itself?

Do we even have to assume that the little gray aliens exist simply

because people tell us that they do, even if they believe that they

exist?

Drawing from a very old example out of hypnotism, and Aileen being

herself a hypnotherapist, can perhaps tell you more about this --

it was

a very common practice, going back many, many decades, to see if

somebody was under some hypnotism, they would introduce them -- they

would take the subject, hypnotize them, and say that there was a

small,

black dog in the room, and he's coming up, and would you pet him.

And the subject will often actually see the dog just as thoroughly,

just

as concretely, as they would see any normal dog that you might get

out

of the animal shelter.

Now if the human brain can be tricked to that extent, then is it not

possible that the ET's that people are seeing are of an exactly like

substance to that dog?

I think it is. I have done a great deal of research into the

subject of

the government's involvement in mind control operations. They like

people to believe that that was all something that they were doing

back

in the 50's and the 60's, and it was all to catch up with the

Russians

who had this huge lead in the field, but they stopped doing it around

1963 and they never really found anything -- it's all a lie!

I mean, basically, I've just come to the conclusion where I can say

that

right now. These programs went very, very far. We got there first. We

were far ahead of the Russians. I even can give you a memo where

Allen

Dulles admitted that to the Warren Commission, of all places.

It went back to World War II, possibly to the 30's, in fact I've just

recently came across some information that occult groups have been

doing

experimentations with what they call electronic mind control, going

all

the way back to the 19th century. In fact there isn't a single

technology of mind control that doesn't go back to that time.

And so, one of the problems, well, I should say that in researching

this

I have not only looked up, read every book available on this subject,

some of which are EXTREMELY hard to find. I mean, I'm sorry to

sound too

paranoid but I'm really beginning to get the idea that somebody has

been

going around to the libraries and hussling them off the shelves,

because

I keep on finding, you know, there are certain books that I keep on

looking for, and I find that they are not checked out, and they are

not

only the library shelves either! And I'm wondering what's happened to

them.

But I think I've now amassed quite a library on the subject, and I've

also gone to Washington, D.C. and I saw some 20,000 documents,

these are

de-classified CIA / Defense Department documents, as well as many

interviews with scientists working on these programs back in the 50's

and 60's, and these were all compiled by John Marks, for his book

_The

Search for the Manchurian Candidate_.

I would suggest that all of you people read that book, but you must

understand that that book is incredibly conservative, and that the

whole

subject goes far, far beyond that. I don't know why John Marks

wrote it

the way he did. Certainly, there was much more information in his

files

than he allowed to come out in his book.

Another good book which I'm sorry to say is very, very difficult to

get

a hold of, and probably the best book on the subject, is called

_Operation Mind Control_, and that's by Walter Bowart. But even then,

after you've gone to that literature, you know, you have to search

through a great deal of periodicals and scientific papers and so

forth,

and also conduct a great many interviews.

I've interviewed people who claim to have been under mind control,

specifically in Vietnam. And what they describe is very, very

similar to

what the abductee's are describing in many respects. Not only that,

I've

spoken to abductees. And this is a subject on which I feel a certain

amount of hesitancy in describing and talking about.

One abductee, I called her Veronica in an article I wrote in UFO

Magazine (it's a long and extremely complicated and fascinating

case),

under hypnosis, and I did not hypnotize her, in fact she is the one

who

wanted the hypnosis and it was administered by a professional

hypnotist.

In the 4th hypnotic session she described one of her abductions,

which

as she dug deeper turned out not to have taken place at all in any

kind

of Unidentified Flying Object, but in fact took place in a house

outside

the Los Angeles area.

And of course, we kept zeroing in on the house and its location,

and so

on and so forth.

Now, I must state directly here that there is some possibility, of

course, whenever there is a hypnotized subject -- it is often stated

wants to please the hypnotist, therefore might confabulate details

that

would fit that hypnotists' particular thesis. I must say that

Veronica

came up with the CIA thesis long before I ever met her. She was

saying

that that was just one possibility among others.

It also seems to be a nagging possibility that other abductees that I

have read about and talked to have come up with, although they didn't

explore it. There is something about the idea of being in contact

with

alien beings that is extremely attractive to them, and they don't

want

to give it up very easily.

Anyway, to go back to the hypnotic session -- she had talked about

-- I

won't give you the details of this kind of terrifying session that

she

underwent in this man's house -- but, after the session, I found out

later she was told under some sort of hypnosis, even though the

hypnotist had tried to get her out of it, and she said that she was

no

longer in trance, but apparently she still was. But I said, "Well,

okay,

let's drive there."

And we did. And I got a location, we found the location, and she

suddenly got very scared and we had to turn back. Well, I later did a

little bit of detective work and I found out who lived there. I won't

give the name, because there is obviously a certain possibility of

lible

involved, but I found out that the man who lived in that house was a

scientist who worked on the CIA's mind control programs. These

programs

had projects like ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, MK-ULTRA.

Not only that, while on the way there, Veronica described the

interior

of this house, including one specific unusual detail that almost

nobody

has in his living room, and I later found out from somebody who had

been

in that house, that she described it accurately. Unfortunately,

Veronica

now says that she can remember nothing of our conversation together

and

I didn't tape her admission of what was inside the house, so there

is no

way I can prove this, which is why I am very, very wary of mentioning

names, and possibly giving way to a lible suit.

But I will say that for my purposes, and I can't prove it to anybody

else, but it has been proved to me that in at least one instance this

thesis is correct.

I must tell you right now that I am as loath as anybody else to

give up

on the alien hypothesis. I mean I grew up with it, I read alot of UFO

books in my time. I've never been plugged into the UFO Network...

I've

never spoken to the actual researchers until just recently. And even

then it's only quite tangential. Aileen is probably the one I know

best.

And so, it gets very, very difficult for me to give up entirely

upon the

idea of the aliens. And I know that people will get angry at me,

because

I am exploring another possibility. But it just seems that this is a

path which has to be looked at.

I do know that from the internal CIA correspondence that I've

looked at

in Washington, that one of the problems they had, is that -- it was a

"disposal problem" -- whenever they were experimenting on someone

to see

how firmly they could control that person's mind, even though they

would

try many techniques to get them to forget the session, as it were, it

was almost impossible to make them forget entirely. Memories would

come

out, often-time in dreams, of what was going on.

One of the scientists who worked on it, I think that was Martin

Warren,

you may recall Martin Warren because he's mentioned prominently in

Philip Klass' skeptical book on UFO abductions. Martin Warren -- what

Philip Klass doesn't tell you is that Martin Warren was a CIA

operative

going back to the very early 60's...

But one of the things they mentioned in this context of people

remembering, was they will remember any scenario that they are to

told. In

other words, you can tell them: "Yes, something happened there... but

you know...", you can fix the memory -- in other words, arrange a

cover

story. And so, yeah, the person might wake up in the middle of the

night

with this terrible, terrible feeling in that back of his head that he

has been hypnotically told to forget something that happened to

him. But

as long as he misremembers that, then the actual truth of the matter

will never come out.

Now I think that something very much like that happened to a man

named

Marty Kosky. Marty Kosky was a Finnish citizen. He was staying in

Canada

sometime in the mid to the late 1970's, and I have alot of material

from

him. He claims to have been a victim of mind control. Now, by the

1970's

this whole technology was getting extremely baroque. In the 50's

and the

60's, according to John Mark's informant, nobody knows his name, I

don't

even think John Mark's knows his name -- he was given the nickname

"Deep

Trance" -- according to Deep Trance the mind control was basically,

the

technology had to do with drugs and some with hypnosis. In the 70's

it

started to turn to things like implantations in the brain and

microwaves. And the two of them can work together.

Now Marty Kosky claims, this Finnish citizen claims to have been a

victim of the microwave experimentations happening in Canada. He had

first, in 1977 or thereabouts, came out with a brochure that was,

well

you know, he learned English only a couple of years previously, and

he

wasn't a professional writer, and claimed to be microwaved in his

brain,

and so obviously you can tell that the pamphlet that he came up

with was

not very impressive, and people looking at it probably dismissed

him as

a nut.

Later, though, he came out with a still not particularly

well-written,

but much more convincing set of materials which I believe that Aileen

might have copies of there, and we can certainly get some copies

distributed to you people, if you're interested in it, in which he

tells

the story in greater length. He talks about being taken to a

hospital,

having things implanted in his brain, hearing of voices. Now I must

say

that even though this sounds like the story of an absolute Loony

Tune, I

know for a fact that this sort of thing does occur -- I mean, is

technologically possible -- there was a scientist named Allen Fray in

the late 60's, early 70's, who discovered that you can induce, with

microwaves, voices in the brain -- that you can actually hear.

As always, with these things, you only get the first experimentations

along these lines, the first successful notes of what was happening

and

then of course, it's all clamped down, you don't get any more

information on follow-up experiments. But we do know, at least from

the

early work, that people were able to hear things, directly perceived

words, as spoken over a microphone, directly in their mind... not

just

through the ears or anything like that. Which makes me look twice

whenever I hear about people who claim to be hearing voices.

Because I

know that that is a classic symptom of schizophrena, but many of

these

people are also extremely hypnotizable.

Classic schizophrenics are not easily hypnotizable, yet these people

are. They fall into a separate category, and I'm wondering if the

voices

that they hear, if they too might be -- it's a possibility among

other

possiblities, let's put it that way -- if these people are also

possible

subjects of this sort of experimentation.

Anyway, getting back to Kosky -- I won't tell you his entire story,

because I think it would be better if you read it entirely -- he

talks

about being kidnapped and taken to a hospital and given what he

called

"spy training". Much of his descriptions of what happened to him in

the

hospital I think are quite incorrect, but who knows what happened

to his

mind during those times.

I do know that of the released MK-ULTRA papers from the 50's and the

60's many of the absolute worst atrocities being committed by the

CIA --

they were trying to invade the space between people's ears -- were in

fact taking place in Canada.

So, it's entirely likely that these things will be happening in

Canada.

Don't think that simply because Kosky points the finger at the Royal

Canadian Mounted Police, doesn't really mean that the CIA or some

other

government agency isn't behind it. In fact, some of what I've read

has

indicated that the government agency that is now most involved in the

mind control experimentation is called DARPA. And I've also just

recently come across some information that NASA, of all people, of

all

places, I don't know why, is possibly, just possibly involved with

that.

There is whole story I can tell you along those lines.

One of the things that Kosky was told after he got away from the

hospital and after he was trying to re-establish his sanity after

these

terrible experimentations that were done to him, he was told that the

people talking to him were from Sirius. Now, this is one of the best

links I have between the mind control technology and the UFO

abduction

phenomenon. That this is a victim of mind control claiming that he

knows

that the controllers were using UFOs or aliens as a cover story for

their operations. He was even more explicit in his original pamphlet.

Where he was saying that: "The test program fluctuates from spying

education to meeting humanoids from other planets, people from Mars

and

Sirius, if you are a religious person, you can even talk to the

Lord."

So, in other words, they find out exactly how your personality is

structured, and then they will assume a persona to meet that, which

also

makes me look at these people who claim to be hearing voices from

Jesus

or from Satan. I know recently there was a rash of people hearing the

voice of Satan, I think it was a group of teenagers out in Tennessee.

And they progressed from -- they were committing horrible

atrocities --

first they were watching these terribly violent videotapes which for

some reason are now being made available to teenagers, including

videotapes of actual deaths and then the voices told them to start

torturing and murdering small animals, until finally they actually

murdered one of their numbers.

Well, I know that this sounds like an outrageous story and possibly

not

connected to what I am saying, but in fact it is connected because

that

was one of the ways they trained -- one of the primary, I should say,

motivations for the entire mind control technology as we know it from

the papers in the 50's and the 60's, was to train people to commit

assassinations. And this is why I am very frightened whenever an

abductee -- and I've had a couple come up with this now -- start

talking

about guns. In fact, you know, in that very same abduction hypnotic

session where we are talking about her abduction, she said that the

entities had told her to bring a gun to Martin (!), which did not

exactly make me feel very good, I mean I really don't know what was

behind that, but I must say that I've rather limited my contact with

that woman ever since.

Now I should say, where was I -- oh yes -- again, I'm not used to

giving

a lecture to large numbers of people whom I can't see, so I'll

probably

be flitting from one thing to another, but anyway, I do have

documents

which prove that that was the ultimate goal, to get people to commit

atrocities without any emotions, without any affect. That was the

primary purpose, and the way they did it was first to desensitize

people.

There was a doctor named Nereut, who I think in 1974 spilled the

beans

to the London Times saying that he was performing these kinds of

experimentations on soldiers of the Green Berets and Navy Seals, and

other Special Forces, and they were taught under hypnosis, and

sometimes

not under hypnosis to desensitive themselves to violence, usually

through a series of films, and then you would progress from that to

not

caring if you tore the head off a chicken. And then you were told

that

the enemy was less than subhuman and so you would go out there and

commit unbelievable atrocities which, if you dig into it, you know

were

committed in Vietnam.

And then, according to the some of the people who claim to be mind

control victims that I've spoken to, you can be hypnotized into

forgetting that you committed the atrocities, and this is actually

quite

beneficial, because you don't want that sort of thing on your memory,

you just won't be able to function. I spoke directly to -- I can't

give

his name -- and I know that it would be very difficult for me to

convince your people of the truth of what he said. All I know is

that I

sat directly across from him in the room. And I met him almost by

coincidence, I was interviewing him on another subject and told him I

was interested in mind control and he said this had happened to him.

He gave me specific examples of things that occurred with him in the

1960's, how he was put through this sort of program. Much of what he

described as to how this -- not just the mind control, he knew the

technology involved, he knew many of the terms involved, he would

have

to do a great deal of studying in order to have gotten this

information.

And he talked about the way that these sort of secret missions

would be

directed out of a Naval intelligence ship, which I knew from other

sources to be absolutely true. So I believed what he had to say to

me,

in other words. And he fingered the Veterans Administration

hospital out

here in Northridge as one place where they continue to have

scientists

operate in these capacities. And that was very interesting to me,

because I later have, and I just now had an abductee tell me that she

had memories of something terrible happening at that very same

Veterans

Administration hospital.

So that all fits together, again, I'm telling you this to explain

to you

why I believe what I believe. I don't necessarily have all of the

facts

and that I can put it in a book and prove it, but I have enough that

definitely my suspicion is raised. Now you may ask about

implantations,

the scars that Budd Hopkins will show you photographs of, and these

implanations, intracerebreal implantations which are just now

beginning

to show up in MRI scans on contactee's. I've just now made friends

with

a woman out in Lancaster, who is studying abductees who claims to

have

gotten alot of these MRI scans definitely having "bogies" showing

up on

them.

Again, this was a part of the technology. There was a book

published in

1968, I believe, called _Were We Controlled_ by a man with the

psuedonym

of Lincoln Lawrence, and I would suggest that you people read that.

Now

this is a book obstensibly about the John F. Kennedy assassination,

looking into the possibility, and this has been raised by a number of

people, outrageous as the possibility may seem, that Jack Ruby and

Lee

Harvey Oswald were somehow hypnotically programmed to do what they

did.

To tell you the truth, although I am willing to accept any number of

unusual possibilities, I am not entirely convinced of that.

However, I

know for a fact that much of the information given in that book

regarding the CIA's and the Defense Department's mind control

program is

right on target, because it checked out with material that was

released

only about fifteen years later, or ten years later, under Freedom of

Information.

Lincoln Lawrence had to have, and I know that he was in fact an FBI

agent, and therefore probably did have the sort of connections. He

had

to have connections to people who were in the know as to the

technology

involved. And the technology that he fingers, and it's come up in a

couple of other sources, again we don't have actual internal

government

documentation on this, unfortunately just yet, but the technology

that

he fingers is something called Radio Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control,

that coupled with another technology called EDOM, Electronic

Dissolution

Of Memory. And basically, EDOM is nothing more or less than "missing

time", exactly what Budd Hopkins talks about. Making people forget

what

they've done for the past two or three hours. According to Lincoln

Lawrence, and I'm tending more and more to believe him, that is a

technology that we, not the aliens, but we have had in our hands

for my

goodness, twenty, thirty years perhaps. Similarly, Radio Hypnotic

Intracerebreal Control is a technology which, even in its most

primitive

form, according to some of the Russian literature mentioned in

Lincoln

Lawrence's book, and again I gave a copy to Aileen there, goes back

to

the 1930's. And that has to do with alot of arcane subjects --

implantations, intracerbreal implantations in the brain.

By sending electronic pulses to these intracerebreal implantations,

you

can train the frequencies of the brain to a point of hypnotic

suggestibility, and then voices, which can be, as I mentioned

earlier,

which can be placed into the brain will act as a sort of remote

hypnotist. One that has a far greater suggestibility than an actual

hypnotist that you might pay money to go see. And this is somebody

who

can make you believe that you are seeing -- when this is happening to

you they can make you believe that you are seeing, or have seen, if

they

want to erase a previous memory, say a van that kidnapped you, when

in

fact they might tell you that it was a UFO that kidnapped you. Or, as

another story that I got from an abductee...

He had this strange memory of -- you know, he was talking about his

abduction, and how he climbed into this saucer-shaped craft. But you

know, just before the saucer-shaped craft appeared in his mind he has

this strange memory that there was this truck in there, and that the

same guy who was on the craft was in that truck, and he couldn't

quite

put the two together. Well, you know, I heard this from Budd Hopkins

once. He said that there was an abductee he talked who said that

there

was, you know when he was abducted, that at first he thought it was a

helicopter, or some sort of helicopter that grabbed him and took

him up

into the air.

No, it couldn't have been that -- what it was, was this UFO -- and

so,

Budd Hopkins is saying well obviously the helicopter was the screen

memory for this terrible UFO experience.

Possibly, but the possibility that I'm looking into is, what if it

really was a helicopter and it was a UFO that was an induced screen

memory, possibly induced by this technology that I'm looking into

called

Radio Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control, RHIC. There was a Doctor named

Jose Delgado, still working today, who wrote a book called _Physical

Control of the Mind: Towards a Psycho-Civilized Society_.

These implants that everybody are talking about -- people are

thinking

that only a highly advanced technology such as the aliens could

come up

with. Well, Delgado was in business as early the late 1950's, he put

these implants in a bull in a Spanish bull-ring, and had the bull

charge

him, and then he pushed a button on a box, it was like the same

sort of

box you would get with a radio-controlled airplane. He pushed a

button

-- and there are photographs of this that I can show you -- with the

bull like just a few feet in front of him and ready to gore the guy

to

death -- came to a complete stop. Pushed another button, the bull

walks

away.

Now if that can happen to animals in the 50's why can't it be

happening

to abductees?

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Thanks, take care.

John.