BDSM discussion
anonymous asked:
I saw some of your BDSM posts, and then read a lot through your tags. I am curious as to how you learned about BDSM and how you've been apart of the community. I'm not being snarky or anything, really. I actually am curious. It seems like what you've learned wasn't BDSM at all, and I wonder if your original source was tainted and you are rejecting all other legitimate sources?
respectthefemalebody answered:
Rejecting the propaganda doesn’t mean I didn’t learn about it correctly my dude. I used to believe the same crap about “submission being empowering” and “safe, sane, consensual” but you know what? That shit is a damn fucking lie that is just designed to trick you in to thinking being treated like a lesser person somehow makes you cool. And when you orgasm thinking about that shit, when you’re exposed to porn depicting that shit, when you grow up in a society where rape is painted as sexy, you internalize those things. That doesn’t make submission an inherent trait.
After all, if submission was an inherent trait, and 80% of subs are women, that’s basically just saying that women are more submissive than men and re-affirming sexist stereotypes. Submission is inherently unnatural because all human beings are born with respect and dignity.
The first time I saw a sex scene in a movie was Revenge of the Nerds, I was like maybe 4 or 5? My dad showed the movie to me. And there’s a scene where one of the nerds tricks the cheerleader in to having sex with him by wearing the same Darth Vader mask as her boyfriend. He rapes her by deception. And her reaction when she finds out that it is the nerd who raped her is to decide she is now in love with him.
That isn’t the only movie like that, either, nor the only piece of culture or media in society that imply rape is sexy and fun as we all just kind of blindly accept it because nobody points out that it is rape.
Ever since childhood, I thought this was what was supposed to be sexy, because I watched the movie with my dad, and he seemed to be OK with everything that was happening in the film. At this time, I internalized a sense of eroticism revolving around my own self being raped, and I began to fantasize about being raped when I hit puberty. I thought this was natural to me because I never actually analyzed my own memories and the source of these ideas, and also there is quite I bit I have blacked out.
As a teenager, I consumed porn, and as most porn consumers, I sought out more violent material. Later, I had a boyfriend who had a membership to a dungeon (though luckily he never took me there, I wanted everything we did to be in private) and basically all of his friends were also in to BDSM, people were always getting naked at parties and stuff, especially the women. The women were always being ordered to show our breasts, and if we didn’t then we were considered boring prudes. So I was his sub for 4 years.
Then after breaking up with him, I thought BDSM could be an empowering way to reclaim my sexuality, but then I found radical feminism and all of the lies of the BDSM community that I had believed in before totally unraveled and it became obvious that it’s just an Orwellian newspeak for abuse designed to trick vulnerable women with self harm tendencies to being exploited by abusive men.
Someone who loves you is literally incapable of dominating you. Someone who loves you can not get off on the idea of treating you as an inferior lesser person, seeing you crawl or seeing you beg.
Only someone who disrespects your humanity can get off on dominating you.
Then you’ve never actually done BDSM or actually been apart of the community. You say yourself that your abuser introduced it to you, but it being an abuser inherently means it’s not BDSM anymore, it’s abuse, assault, and rape. I bet he never took you to the dungeon, because the members there who practice real BDSM would instantly put a stop to all of it. I don’t feel you can speak for an entire community that you’ve never actually experienced, that you’ve never been apart of.
Sure, you can speak to what you did experience, the abuse you endured, but you don’t know what actual BDSM is.
You’ve just been controlled by a sadistic abuser trying to disguise his sickness as BDSM and also hide it from the BDSM community. That explains why none of what you say is anything like BDSM, all you’ve experienced is abuse, not BDSM.
One big thing that tips me into that is the pressure to go further you talk about, for women to bare more and more pain, you talk about being called a “prude” for saying no. That is a HUGE and giant NO-NO in the community, you do NOT pressure, coerce, etc anyone to do anything. That’s breaking consent, which violates the “Safe, sane, and consensual” number one rule.
your brain doesn’t distinguish between consensual abuse and regular abuse, both are equally traumatic. This is bdsm culture, stop lying to yourself and stop trying to get other people to be “open-minded” about abuse, that’s abusive in itself. You’re part of the problem. This shit is inherent to bdsm no matter how many of y’all try to deny it doesn’t happen. This is a no-true Scotsman and it doesn’t hold up. We’ve seen the bdsm community, this is exactly what it is. There is no “good side” or “bad side”. You just say that it’s “safe, sane, and consensual” but don’t explain how. I’d love for someone to please tell me a single act of bdsm that is all 3 at the same time. Lmao. Most acts of bdsm aren’t safe or sane even if they fit your technical definition of consensual. She says she did engage in these acts with your definition of “consent” but there were underlying issues that pressured her into saying yes, that made her feel like saying yes would be good for her. She said he never brought her to the dungeon because she wanted their sex life to be private. But go ahead and assume that the men in the dungeon were good men. 😂
Interesting how you assume that those in the dungeon were men. There’s females too. Including females who run them.
When you feel pressured to say yes, when you don’t feel like saying no is a good option, that’s not a choice. That is coercion, which is not consent. Also she herself does call it rape. It wasn’t consensual, and it’s gross you’re saying she wasn’t raped when she said she was.
There’s no such thing as “consensual abuse.” That’s like saying “consensual rape” it can’t be rape and consensual. BDSM isn’t abuse, and also your brain CAN tell the difference between something you want and something you don’t want. Which is why actual BDSM community members aren’t traumatized by it. No damage is done by it, when it’s real BDSM, not abuse.
I’m not trying to make anyone open minded to abuse, but you mean BDSM. I’m not trying to get people to be open minded about that either, that goes against the “consensual” part again… if you’re not into it, STAY AWAY! It’s not for you. But don’t condemn my community for something you don’t know anything about, and that you don’t understand. And you literally don’t understand how it works.
I’m also concerned about how you’ve learned of BDSM, considering you say “most acts aren’t safe or sane….” but what acts are you talking about? MOST acts are typical sex acts, (graphic warning) like blow jobs, cunnilingus, kissing, sucking, spanking, and that’s only if you incorporate sex. Traditional BDSM doesn’t mix sex and other acts. What are those other acts? Sitting. Not touching yourself. Being tied up (for which there are special knots and ways of tying to make sure everyone is physically safe, and something like blood flow isn’t being cut off, and bruising isn’t occurring). Giving a massage. Etc.
If you’re talking only about sadism and masochism, then my guess is that either an abuser or porn is how you were introduced to BDSM, neither of which is giving you a real picture of the BDSM community and what we do. You don’t ever do anything that causes marks or lasting harm, never anything that puts someone’s health at risk, that’s the “safe and sane” part of it. Maybe you don’t find something like spanking “sane,” but it’s a) not your judgement to make here, and b) if it causes no mental or physical damage, no danger, and the person is down for it, how is it insane?
Also no I can’t name a single act of BDSM that is all three, because of consent, because of physical or mental needs, it can be different for different people. Like I can’t say kissing, a sub may have kissing as a hard no for whatever reason, it doesn’t matter, you respect it. Another sub may be down for flogging, but to the point of physical harm, and the dom isn’t consenting to doing that, and it isn’t safe or sane in that case. That’s the thing about BDSM, it is tailored to everyone in the scene, along the rules of consent, safety, and sanity.
If what you’re doing isn’t all three, all the time, it is not BDSM.
Abuse is never all three, all the time.
I’m not referring to her rape, I’m referring to her decision to enter the bdsm community which was based on the idea that it would empower her, and what led her to make that decision, like misogynist messages she was ingesting her whole life, hence the “underlying issues”. When I say this was done with yourtechnical definition of consent, I mean the bare fucking minimum which is permission. A yes. Coercion doesn’t matter to the bdsm community. Why you said yes doesn’t matter in the bdsm community. Analysis isn’t done. Vulnerability factors are ignored. Psychological damage is ignored. You knew exactly what I meant, though.
Again, me saying “consensual abuse” is me operating under the same definition of consensual as I just stated. Please refere to this post to understand what I mean.
I was introduced to BDSM through the tumblr community, which does post a lot of porn, that’s true. How were you introduced to it? Porn or another piece of misogynist media? A misogynist, perhaps? Anyways, I’ve seen the bdsm community and I’ve seen plenty of glamorized bruises. I’ve also seen people getting spat on, people getting choked, people getting degraded, boot-licking, other forms of oxygen-deprivation like putting people in vacuum sealed bags. All of this by people who claimed they valued safety.
You either think choking someone is safe or you don’t, there is no “it depends on the individual uwu”. The things you just listed would be considered vanilla by the BDSM community at this point, and I know you purposefully left out anything that wasn’t actually safe that is commonplace, like choking. Convenient of you not to mention it even though it’s pretty popular. Come on, you and I both know that a massage has nothing to do with bondage, discipline, domination, submission, sadism, or masochism, which I’m sure you know is what bdsm stands for. Lmao so no that’s not a “bdsm act” and neither is kissing lmao. But yeah I’m under the impression that if something isn’t safe, it also immediately rules out sane. All bdsm acts especially degrading ones have a potential to cause long-term psychological damage and it’s not worth the risk.
You: “You don’t do anything that causes marks or lasting harm or puts someone’s health at risk.”
Also you, later: “another sub may be down for flogging, but to the point of physical harm, but the dom isn’t consenting to doing that”
If it’s not safe or sane, why is she asking for it? If he had consented to doing what she asked, would it have been okay? What matters most? In this scenario, it would have never been all three at the same time. And yes, it still would have been bdsm, because bdsm doesn’t require the mantra y’all repeat contrary to what you want to tell yourself to justify it. It just requires people doing sexual acts that count as bondage, discipline, domination, submission, sadism and/or masochism. That’s it, which is why bdsm is abuse.
I was introduced to BDSM by myself, upon my own non-porn research. I heard the term somewhere, I don’t remember where I think tv, was curious what it meant, and started doing my own digging. I came across the actual community, books written about it, websites dedicated to the actual legitimate practice of it and how to safely do so. Not porn. Not a misogynist. Not tumblr, which is never a good source for anything really.
Massage most certainly can be BDSM, as well as kissing. It has to do with how you do it. If a dom instructs you to kiss him somewhere or give him a massage, that IS a BDSM act, it is the D and S part of it in fact. And don’t pretend there’s only masochism and sadism, you know very good and well that there’s submission and dominance and bondage and none of those require pain. Or maybe you don’t, since you’ve never actually been apart of the community, of an actually BDSM scene.
Also, if there’s some external pressure that forces someone to say yes, then no, it isn’t BDSM, because consent is broken. Now if you mean something like past history of trauma or something leads someone to say yes, then that really is on them to relate that information and learn to put up boundaries and know they need to say no. But if they don’t want to do BDSM at all, then why are they even trying? It’s not for everyone, so DON’T! But to remove someones autonomy because of past experiences is absolutely what the patriarchy tries to do to us and I can’t stand it. Past experiences don’t mean you are crazy and have no control over yourself now, that is absurd. And while yes, trauma can play a role in the decisions you make, it doesn’t make them for you and it will play a role in EVERY SINGLE ONE YOU MAKE FOREVER! Including what job you take, what kind of doctor you see, and who you will marry/not marry! That doesn’t make it an automatically nonconsensual or bad decision!
It wasn’t “convenient” I didn’t mention choking. It isn’t a BDSM act, because while it /can/ be safe, it can also do damage and is not /sane/. You are again confusing abuse with what BDSM is. Along the same lines the example I gave about flogging wasn’t BDSM, because it wasn’t safe, and the dom wasn’t consenting. It was an example of where something crosses a line and is no longer BDSM.
I feel I explained this well in another post, a reply to @respectthefemalebody which you can find on my blog fairly easily. In it I explain more about just because something seems harmful or physically painful doesn’t mean it is. I mean vaccines hurt, but the benefit is great. Same with BDSM, though puncturing the skin would be a no-no. I also explain how I’m not making the no true Scotsman fallacy.
Look, if you’ve never known BDSM as anything other than abuse, and you’ve never been apart of an actually safe, sane, and consensual scene, then of course you don’t understand it and don’t know what BDSM actually is. But you need to listen when someone who has and who wasn’t taught abuse is BDSM is telling you what it actually is.
So you admit you don’t know how you were first exposed to it and you formed your opinions around some propaganda you read?
Like honey, if you want to pretend porn isn’t a normal part of the BDSM experience that’s just damn naive.
Domination is inherently abusive, there’s literally no way for it not to be.
You can consent to things that are bad for you.
Arguing that domination is acceptable if you asked for it doesn’t change the fact that the dom is literally getting off on treating the sub like an inferior.
There is no way to dominate someone while also respecting their humanity, because when you order someone to do something you are acting superior to them.
I saw some of your BDSM posts, and then read a lot through your tags. I am curious as to how you learned about BDSM and how you've been apart of the community. I'm not being snarky or anything, really. I actually am curious. It seems like what you've learned wasn't BDSM at all, and I wonder if your original source was tainted and you are rejecting all other legitimate sources?
respectthefemalebody answered:
Rejecting the propaganda doesn’t mean I didn’t learn about it correctly my dude. I used to believe the same crap about “submission being empowering” and “safe, sane, consensual” but you know what? That shit is a damn fucking lie that is just designed to trick you in to thinking being treated like a lesser person somehow makes you cool. And when you orgasm thinking about that shit, when you’re exposed to porn depicting that shit, when you grow up in a society where rape is painted as sexy, you internalize those things. That doesn’t make submission an inherent trait.
After all, if submission was an inherent trait, and 80% of subs are women, that’s basically just saying that women are more submissive than men and re-affirming sexist stereotypes. Submission is inherently unnatural because all human beings are born with respect and dignity.
The first time I saw a sex scene in a movie was Revenge of the Nerds, I was like maybe 4 or 5? My dad showed the movie to me. And there’s a scene where one of the nerds tricks the cheerleader in to having sex with him by wearing the same Darth Vader mask as her boyfriend. He rapes her by deception. And her reaction when she finds out that it is the nerd who raped her is to decide she is now in love with him.
That isn’t the only movie like that, either, nor the only piece of culture or media in society that imply rape is sexy and fun as we all just kind of blindly accept it because nobody points out that it is rape.
Ever since childhood, I thought this was what was supposed to be sexy, because I watched the movie with my dad, and he seemed to be OK with everything that was happening in the film. At this time, I internalized a sense of eroticism revolving around my own self being raped, and I began to fantasize about being raped when I hit puberty. I thought this was natural to me because I never actually analyzed my own memories and the source of these ideas, and also there is quite I bit I have blacked out.
As a teenager, I consumed porn, and as most porn consumers, I sought out more violent material. Later, I had a boyfriend who had a membership to a dungeon (though luckily he never took me there, I wanted everything we did to be in private) and basically all of his friends were also in to BDSM, people were always getting naked at parties and stuff, especially the women. The women were always being ordered to show our breasts, and if we didn’t then we were considered boring prudes. So I was his sub for 4 years.
Then after breaking up with him, I thought BDSM could be an empowering way to reclaim my sexuality, but then I found radical feminism and all of the lies of the BDSM community that I had believed in before totally unraveled and it became obvious that it’s just an Orwellian newspeak for abuse designed to trick vulnerable women with self harm tendencies to being exploited by abusive men.
Someone who loves you is literally incapable of dominating you. Someone who loves you can not get off on the idea of treating you as an inferior lesser person, seeing you crawl or seeing you beg.
Only someone who disrespects your humanity can get off on dominating you.
Then you’ve never actually done BDSM or actually been apart of the community. You say yourself that your abuser introduced it to you, but it being an abuser inherently means it’s not BDSM anymore, it’s abuse, assault, and rape. I bet he never took you to the dungeon, because the members there who practice real BDSM would instantly put a stop to all of it. I don’t feel you can speak for an entire community that you’ve never actually experienced, that you’ve never been apart of.
Sure, you can speak to what you did experience, the abuse you endured, but you don’t know what actual BDSM is.
You’ve just been controlled by a sadistic abuser trying to disguise his sickness as BDSM and also hide it from the BDSM community. That explains why none of what you say is anything like BDSM, all you’ve experienced is abuse, not BDSM.
One big thing that tips me into that is the pressure to go further you talk about, for women to bare more and more pain, you talk about being called a “prude” for saying no. That is a HUGE and giant NO-NO in the community, you do NOT pressure, coerce, etc anyone to do anything. That’s breaking consent, which violates the “Safe, sane, and consensual” number one rule.
“Him being an abuser inherently means it is not BDSM anymore” see my dude, this is called the No True Scottsman logical fallacy.
The BDSM community uses this idea that it is impossible for BDSM to be abusive in order to stop you from thinking critically about what is actually going on in the situation, they use Orwellian newspeak techniques.
I have experienced it, you just don’t like my interpretation of the events because I broke free from the brainwashing propaganda and you still believe in it.
The whole “safe, sane, consensual” part is the fantasy, the reality is that one person is treating another like a submission inferior. The fantasy is when you lie to yourself and say, “oh, it’s healthy for him to make me crawl and beg for him, because I told him I wanted him to treat me like this.”
This fails to ask, why would anyone want to be treated this way?
If he wouldn’t be OK with you cutting yourself, why would he be OK with hurting you when you ask to be hurt? Because the second one gives him pleasure?
He never took me because I told him not to and that it was my hard limit for us to do things alone, but he still pressured me to do stuff at parties at his house, anyways. He actually wanted to take me.
The only time it ever seems to be a “huge and giant no-no” to treat submissives like that is when kinksters argue with anti-abuse feminists, the rest of the time your community is steeeeeeped in misogyny.
It’s like how pro-porn people like to pretend that porn is free from rape culture, even if they think that normal movies or shows like Game of Thrones perpetuate it.
Every single time I argue with you kinksters you always pull the same exact shit, because that is what your community does, your community is about protecting the abusers aka the doms, so annyone who gets exposed is “not a real dom” anymore. Of course, he still has plenty of friends who think he is a “real dom” even if he doesn’t get your personal seal of approval.
BDSM is full of psychological tricks, like the idea of a “safe word” which is designed to detach you from your own physical experience. This way, when it is most natural for you to say “no” or make sounds of discomfort, your partner will still keep going, even if your body was actually sending you signals to stop.
Use of the “safe word” means the dom can just keep going and it is OK for the dom to ignore physical signs of pain or discomfort from the sub, ignore the natural reaction to say “no” because it is up to the sub to think long and hard if they actually want to end this scene or if they want to impress the dom by showing how much they can take.
Also don’t make the argument that BDSM hurts women because it enforces stereotypes about women and misogyny, because my response to that is so are women who become nurses or teachers for example. We can’t earn our own hate either, that in and of itself is misogynistic.
The idea that women teach and are nurturing isn’t exactly quite as harmful to women the way “women are naturally submissive” is. Try again. No one said you earned your hate, but that you internalize it and you start to believe it’s true and you fulfill the role you think you’re supposed to.
Except that those ARE just as damaging as the submissive stereotype. Because then women are expected to be good mothers. Expected to only have children, and nothing else. Expected to be the sole parent doing the actual parenting. Also some people ARE naturally submissive, and there is nothing wrong with that! And that includes men! The problem comes when everyone labeled “woman” is also labeled “submissive” and then is expected to only ever be submissive, with no choice. Submission in and of itself is not necessarily bad or wrong.
Please read my original response that this is an addition to, before you start talking about this one, because I’ve already addressed this, which you would’ve seen had you looked for and read the oroginal response after you saw I said “Also,” as my first word here…
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