INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE KNAPP OF KLAS-TV (LAS VEGAS, NEVADA) ON NOVEMBER 17, 1989. INTERVIEWED BY CHUCK HARDER, HOST AND MODERATOR OF 'FOR THE PEOPLE' OF THE SUN RADIO NETWORK
041/046 23 Dec 89
22:08:00
From: Michael Corbin
To: All
Subj: Knapp Interview #1
Attr:
------------------------------------------------
DATE OF
UPLOAD: December 23, 1989
ORIGIN OF
UPLOAD: ParaNet Information Service
CONTRIBUTED BY: Chuck
Harder/Special Correspondent to ParaNet
========================================================
(C) Copyright
1989 ParaNet Information Service
All Rights
Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
========================================================
INTERVIEW WITH
GEORGE KNAPP OF KLAS-TV (LAS VEGAS,
NEVADA) ON
NOVEMBER 17,
1989. INTERVIEWED BY
CHUCK HARDER, HOST
AND
MODERATOR OF 'FOR
THE PEOPLE' OF THE SUN RADIO NETWORK.
CHUCK HARDER
My guest has (now)
called in and I'm going to run down who he
is
and where he's
from for a number of reasons, some of them for his
own
protection. George, are you there...
GEORGE KNAPP
Hello Chuck.
CHUCK HARDER
Please tell us,
you are George Knapp, right...
GEORGE KNAPP
That's right.
CHUCK HARDER
George, what do
you do for a living?
GEORGE KNAPP
I'm a
journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS
affiliate
here.
CHUCK HARDER
So you are a TV
newsman...
GEORGE KNAPP
Right.
CHUCK HARDER
And you work for
Channel 8, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada...
GEORGE KNAPP
Right.
CHUCK HARDER
I understand
that you have come upon
some very interesting
information and
you've done some special reports, could you
tell
us about it...?
GEORGE KNAPP
Well we
just finished a nine-part series
-- what may be the
longest series
that's ever been done on this subject dealing with
UFOs.
Our research actually started about two and a
half years ago, a
fellow named John
Lear, the son of the guy who invented the
Lear
Jet brought some
of this information to our attention. In
May of
this year, Mr.
Lear introduced us to a fellow who claims to
have
worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a
top-secret Nevada
test site...the
fellow said that he worked on
flying saucers,
that the technology was not from Earth, and
we interviewed him
live in silhouette in May, the response was
incredible...we got
response from Japan, parts of that interview aired
on radio
in
Europe, and six
different European countries...so we decided with
this much
interest we might want to take a look at the subject in
more depth.
We started doing that and the first thing we
found out is that
really UFOs
have not been given a fair
shake by
science, by
government, by religion and especially by
journalism. Millions
of people
have seen UFOs, millions more believe...I think
the
latest Gallup
poll shows about 70 percent
of college-educated
Americans believe that there's something to it,
but because of
the tabloid
aspects...'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52 UFO Babies'
-- kind
of things in the National Enquirer, people have
shied
away from
it...Serious people have shied
away. Scientists,
although they might be interested in searching the
universe for
radio signals
really don't want to look in their own back yard --
they can't get
grants...people would laugh at them.
Journalism -
- the coverage is
generally condescending and quirky,
especially
by the networks, as in the coverage of this UFO
that supposedly
landed in the
USSR, people making fun of it...so, we figured
out
that millions of
people want to know as Roy Neary, the guy in the
'Close
Encounters' movie said, 'What's going on?'
So we started
investigating
it. The focal point of the story being
this fellow
who said he worked at S-4. We broke his identity last
Friday.
His name is Bob
Lazar, he is a former scientist who worked at Los
Alamos National
Labs, he is a physicist...we did
a lot of
checking on him
and found interestingly enough that his life
was
disappearing around
him. In other words we
called Los Alamos
Labs and they
said they never heard of him. We called
MIT where
he says he went to school and they had never
heard of him. We
called for
his Birth records and they had
disappeared...as if
someone was
trying to make him a non-person.
We did however
confirm some of the information that he had given
us...we found
newspaper
articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had
indeed
worked there...we found an old telephone book from
the lab with
his name in it,
which gave him a certain amount of credibility in
our eyes. The story he tells is an incredible one. He was hired
to work at this
area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up
to a place called Groom Lake -- taken by bus
with no windows to
S-4...the base
is built almost to look like
its part
of the
desert with
sand covered hanger doors, he goes
inside and he
starts reading
these briefing papers dealing with UFOs!
Pictures
of UFOs
on the walls, pictures of aliens,
autopsy reports on
alien
bodies...things of this nature -- he's pretty amazed. Then
he sees the
discs. He says there are nine of the
discs up there,
they are powered
by an anti-matter reactor which produces its own
gravitational field...technology that does not
exist on this
planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for a
while that
perhaps it was just an advanced secret
scientific project that
our government
is pursuing until he looked inside
one of the
discs and noticed
the small furniture...all the chairs were built
like for children...and then things started coming
together for
him. Are you with me Chuck?
<Continued
next message...>
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* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=-
Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422.0)
042/046 23 Dec 89
22:10:00
From: Michael Corbin
To: All
Subj: Georg Knapp Interview #2 /Lazar
Attr:
------------------------------------------------
<...Continued
from previous message>
CHUCK HARDER
I'm listening.
GEORGE KNAPP
Er, I'm not sure
how much detail you want me to go in on...
CHUCK HARDER
Oh I think you
ought to keep going.
GEORGE KNAPP
Well, this fellow
was up there for only a few months. And
it was
a rough place for him to work...the security
was so hard and he
was being harassed at home, his phones being
tapped...plus he's
on to what he
thinks are the secrets of the universe...he
starts
to tell other
people about it, confide with close friends.
CHUCK HARDER
Ummmmmm.....
GEORGE KNAPP
He had
the date of a couple of tests
and on
two consecutive
weekends he
took people up into the
desert outside of the
boundaries of area S-4, and they video taped the saucers...what
looks like a
saucer coming over the mountains!
CHUCK HARDER
Wow...
GEORGE KNAPP
We showed that
video as well...
CHUCK HARDER
Uh-huh....
GEORGE KNAPP
Five different
people that we interviewed that had gone up
there
confirmed the
same story...we also had confirmation of other bits
of his
story from other people, a
former security guard
who
worked up
there...who said he had seen the
saucers, a former
technician...
CHUCK HARDER
By the
way, excuse me, I have some
letters from some
people
postmarked from
that area, one inside of a base, who
tells me
what you're
saying is true. Keep going.
GEORGE KNAPP
Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on
radar duty at
Nellis airbase
which is here just south of the area
that this
fellow is talking
about...he reported numerous times seeing...
CHUCK HARDER
George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news
break, I
want
you to tell your
story, I want America to hear it...please
stand
by.
>>>>At this point the SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the
half hour news
headlines and sports
audio package from UPI<<<<
(After news the
guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have
just tuned in...)
CHUCK HARDER
How many reports
did you do, George?
GEORGE KNAPP
We did nine total
in this series.
CHUCK HARDER
Ok, now at the
time we went to news on the half hour you told
me
that a scientist
named Bob Lazar...
GEORGE KNAPP
Right...
CHUCK HARDER
Ok, came
to you and came to the public
and apparently was
concerned for his
safety because he wanted to tell America or get
news out that -
yes, the Federal Government has nine saucers, and
yes they are
near...it's near Nellis, is it not?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yes.
CHUCK HARDER
Cause I have
letters from people who are at
Nellis. Some of
which don't
want to give their name, some of which
gave their
name, I have the
postmarks. Tell us now if you would,
start the
story from the fact that the gentleman has
revealed that there
are nine of these
things. We're listening and so is
America.
<Continued
next message...>
--- ZMailQ 1.10
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* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=-
Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422.0)
043/046 23 Dec 89
22:12:00
From: Michael Corbin
To: All
Subj: George Knapp Interview #3/Lazar
Attr:
------------------------------------------------
<...Continued
from previous message>
GEORGE KNAPP
Well, we
wanted to try to confirm as much of
his story as
possible from
other sources of course, so we started looking
for
other people
who might have knowledge of
what's going on up
there...as I
mentioned, I found a former security guard who
said
that he
had seen the
saucers up there, I
found a former
technician who
said that he had walked into a room
inadvertently
and saw one under
a tarp, we found a Nellis airman who had worked
in radar
and said that basically he and his fellow airman
has
seen these things
flying over the Groom Mountains at speeds up to
7,000 miles
per hour on radar...these things
would stop on a
dime, so
the guy knew that this is not
your average airplane
that's doing
this. We also interviewed the other
people who went
with Lazar
up on two consecutive weeks, they
test them on
Wednesdays for
some reason, and videotaped the
tests, saw these
things flying
over the mountains and confirmed his story as well.
We put these
questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he worked
for
up there
-- we made Freedom of
Information Act requests
for
information about
the various specific programs he mentioned,
of
course the Navy denied having any information
on the
programs.
Of course in those requests we also asked for
other information
about UFOs, stuff the Navy has already released and
they denied
having that
information as well -- so I don't put a lot of
faith
in the FOIA requests.
CHUCK HARDER
In other
words, what you're saying is
that your organization
which is
KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus
many other UFO
research
groups have
uncovered many UFO documents
that the government
says, 'Yeah, we
got them and yeah it's true'...but then when
you
ask them again
they say, 'No, we don't have them!'
GEORGE KNAPP
Exactly...that's
exactly correct!
CHUCK HARDER
I understand
from MUFON and many other groups
that there are
somewhere from
four to seven thousand
documents that prove
that...yes these
things exist, copies of the documents
are in
private hands, then you go and ask the government and
they say,
'Well, er, no we
don't remember...'
GEORGE KNAPP
The government says that they have done these
studies that say
that UFOs
are no threat to national
security, they're either
psychological
aberrations, which means that people are nuts
when
they see them,
that's what they feed the public...but behind
the
scenes they
are very concerned about
the national security
implications of
UFOs that land at nuclear missile bases and can't
be caught, things of that nature. So the government from
what
I've read
is very concerned about the phenomena
and doesn't
really understand
it. The government on the other
hand has
outright lied
concerning what information it does have...the
CIA
for example
says it doesn't
collect any information
on
UFOs...well that's
just patently not true. We have
documents
from the
CIA, a lot of it is blacked out,
which mentions UFO
studies by
the CIA, UFO
research, CIA-UFO experts,
agency
personnel who are
monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to
us all
along. I didn't expect to get any
confirmation regarding
what Lazar has to
say, but had to give it a try anyway.
CHUCK HARDER
Before we
went to the half-hour break you
said that when
he
looked inside
one of these discs there were
little furniture,
give me some
information...
GEORGE KNAPP
Well he
feels that they were bringing him along, giving him a
piece at a
time. He would see a saucer one
day, the
next he
would see the
hanger doors open and see all nine of
them...after
that he got to
see the inside of the thing. He also got
to see a
demonstration of
it. He was told to
stand back and
watch
this...and the thing lights up real bright...I
guess the power
that's produced
is incredible, you need to produce
your own
gravitational field
and it raised up, he wasn't
sure who was
flying it or was it remotely or what. He watched it
raise up,
did a couple of
maneuvers and sat back down. Part of
the reason
he came forward,
not to spill the secrets of the universe or
the
government, but because the research that's being done
up there
is being handled
in a clumsy fashion. If they have had
these for
as long as forty years, which is what he
believes, they haven't
come to far in trying to understand them. Some of the discs he
said he saw up there were being taken apart, kind
of a
reverse
archaeology process to figure out how they worked. Some of the
research going on up there is aimed at trying to duplicate
the
things that
these machines can do using earth technologies and
earth materials and he says it just can't be
done. The key to
the flying of the
things is something he calls 'Element 115'...it
does not exist on
our periodic charts, he believes that
wherever
it came from its
a naturally occurring element, he says
we have
500 pounds of this stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of
it produces
incredible amounts of power. Its the
'115' that we
will not be able to duplicate so he thinks...one
of the reasons
that he came
forward is because scientists all over the world are
working, putting
their energy into trying to master the secrets
of gravity
and the secrets of anti-matter technology and
here
we've got it up
there and they're not doing a very good job
with
it -- this
little batch of scientists hidden out in the desert
are trying to
figure it out and not doing a very good job...
<Continued
next message...>
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* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=-
Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422.0)
044/046 23 Dec 89
22:15:00
From: Michael Corbin
To: All
Subj: George Knapp Interview #4/Lazar
Attr:
------------------------------------------------
<...Continued
from previous message>
CHUCK HARDER
But this is kind
of common with the United States
government...I
read a tremendous
amount of material...I read a tremendous amount
of material...I read five newspapers a day and
I'll find where
one group in one
part of the country is working on a project
and
I'll get a clipping where another group is working
on the
same
project, I've
contacted them and they don't know of each other!
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah, Yeah
-- that's exactly
right...he said the
compartmentalization up
there was very severe as well
so that
nobody had the
full picture -- I guess so nobody could spill
the
beans as he has
been trying to do.
CHUCK HARDER
Alright, what does he feel the public should know and
what does
he feel should be
done?
GEORGE KNAPP
Well, he's not on
a campaign, what he really wanted to do was
to
save his
own life. He started having some problems
when it
became obvious to
his employers that he was telling someone
else
about this.
CHUCK HARDER
We're talking
about Bob Lazar now...
GEORGE KNAPP
Bob Lazar...his
phone being tapped, people visiting him,
calling
him up with a single word message -- DEAD -- then
they hang up!
He tried to arrange meetings with his former
supervisor and the
meetings didn't
come off, he says somebody took a shot
at him on
the
freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really wanted to
kill him,
they could. Maybe perhaps they
were just trying to
shut him up. He feels that what is going on up there is a
crime
against the entire scientific community...not only
the American
people because we
don't know what's going on and we haven't
been
told alien
technology exists, but also
against the scientific
community. So, what else can I tell ya?
CHUCK HARDER
What does he say
about the aliens?
GEORGE KNAPP
He's reluctant
to talk about that, apparently he did
see some
aliens up
there...
CHUCK HARDER
Excuse me, are you
telling me there were live aliens?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that,
and I
don't
think I should go much further on that...part of
the discussion
until I can talk to him, but he has indications
that there are
aliens up there,
at least one...
CHUCK HARDER
Live?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include
that in our
reports because I couldn't confirm any thing of
that nature, I
couldn't find
anyone else who had seen them up there so...
CHUCK HARDER
What did they
look like?
GEORGE KNAPP
Your classic
Grey...the little big-headed
almond eyed-grey
skinned
being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of the
UFO
literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as well
because it sounds
so crazy...
CHUCK HARDER
I don't
think it's crazy at all, there was an article, let me
digress for a
moment, there was an article yesterday on the front
page of The Wall
Street Journal where the FDA that stopped all of
the grapes from
Chile last March...apparently somebody laced
two
of the
grapes with cyanide a couple of hours
before the FDA,
stumbled on them and it was an inside job
apparently while the
grapes were in the inspection station...and it was
not done
on
the way, so
somebody's lying there -- we're talking of two little
grapes that almost bankrupted the country of Chile!
If two
little
grapes...and such a story hits the front page of The Wall
Street Journal
about the questions about the
truthfulness and
what happened
with the FDA, what about this...how would this ever
get out if they
would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES?!
GEORGE KNAPP
Well, I tell you we asked the question, the obvious
question, if
this is
true; how can the government keep this a
secret all this
time? A
story this big -- the government leaks like a sieve on
other things, how
could the coverup exist?
CHUCK HARDER
Oh, I'll tell
you...
GEORGE KNAPP
To which Lazar responds, this is the
easiest...and he asked the
question to his
superiors up there, it's the easiest thing in the
world to keep a secret because if it does come out,
little bits
and pieces, who's
going to believe it?
<Continued
next message...>
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* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=-
Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422.0)
045/046 23 Dec 89
22:17:00
From: Michael Corbin
To: All
Subj: George Knapp Interview #5/Lazar
Attr:
------------------------------------------------
<...Continued
from previous message>
CHUCK HARDER
Exactly...let me,
you remember the Condon Report, do you not?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yes...
CHUCK HARDER
For those
who are listening, I got
into this investigation
because I kept
getting letters from our listeners who said, Chuck
you ought to
investigate this...we've investigated many things in
the past such as the GM Diesel coverup, we're
working on a pay
phone coverup, we've done things with Ralph
Nader...and so on.
So we started
buying the books and contacting UFO
organizations.
I then found that
there was a guy named Phil Klass who was always
there...somehow he as always there and he said that
everything
was bunk! And of course, he works for the Aviation Week
magazine
which is of
course is the mouthpiece for the
Military/Industrial
complex and they certainly wouldn't want this
technology to be
out! I was
also amazed when I saw the stealth
bomber (tests)
live on CNN
one Saturday and a small plane landed at
the same
place, (runway)
do you remember that...?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yes...
CHUCK HARDER
My question is:
If the Stealth Bomber was so super-secret, how
could a man and
his children land their little tiny plane on
the
same runway at a super-secret airforce base? How could he
have
pierced the radar
and fighter jets and so forth? My
feeling was,
probably the
Stealth Bomber was obsolete and nobody was watching!
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah, I'd
have to agree with you, because
the security up
there...the only
thing that comes out of that place is what
they
want out of it.
CHUCK HARDER
So what your
talking about then, since the Condon Committee, Phil
Klass and all the of the spokespeople who are
supposed to know
everything, what your saying is the ridicule factor...if
Billy
Bob sees a flying
saucer and even has a photo of it and takes
it
to the paper,
everybody laughs at him!
GEORGE KNAPP
There are
actual documents the government has
released (Under
Freedom of Information Act) that show it has an active
program
that started
back in the fifties...the CIA even used
the term
DEBUNKING, there
were discussions about using
Walt Disney to
produce cartoons
that made fun of people who
had seen flying
saucers...they were
going to bring Arthur Godfrey in
as their
spokesperson. Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's
explained away
UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the
constellation
ORION, when
you can only see ORION from the other side of the
planet.
CHUCK HARDER
Uh huh...
GEORGE KNAPP
He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls
to explain the
sightings where
plasma balls only last for a few seconds and
the
examples that he is trying to explain occur in cloudless
skies
where there
is no lightning around. You
mention the Condon
report, that's a
perfect example of the kinds of things that
the
government has done in the past, they commission a study,
it's
supposed to be
THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to run the thing,
Edward Condon had
before he even started, that there was
nothing
to UFOs, the
government should get out of it, and he also said at
one point that the authors of UFO books should
be HORSEWHIPPED!
One of
the explanations that came
from the
Condon Committee
witnessed by
several people, they described it
as, a natural
phenomena so rare
that it has never been seen before or since!
I
don't think this
kind of a thing is an accident!
CHUCK HARDER
Ok, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report
(of a UFO) and
from what I have
heard there are different kinds of aliens,
some
have been coming
here for years and years and it's nothing new...
GEORGE KNAPP
Right...
CHUCK HARDER
Why is
it in some parts of the world
(now) they report other
types of
humanoids and other types of vehicles...I happen to have
beautiful photos
of some, and as I told you off-the-air,
we're
going to be releasing them in our upcoming
magazine if someone
doesn't stick a
dagger through my heart...
GEORGE KNAPP
You're talking about the Billy Meier case, if you want to touch
on that, we also
did some investigation on that...
<Conclusion in
next message...>
--- ZMailQ 1.10
@1:104/422.0
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=-
Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422.0)
046/046 23 Dec 89
22:19:00
From: Michael Corbin
To: All
Subj: George Knapp Interview #6/Lazar
Attr:
------------------------------------------------
<...Continued
from previous message>
CHUCK HARDER
Ok, go ahead.
GEORGE KNAPP
Billy Meier, I've always been intrigued by that, and wanted
to
check them
out. Its been pretty much
written-off by the UFO
community but when we put questions to them about the
case they
can't explain
exactly why so we traveled to Phoenix and talked to
Lee Elders one of the lead investigators on the
Billy Meier case
and started
going over the evidence.
The photos had
been
analyzed by independent experts, the film footage and video had
been analyzed,
the metal sample had been confirmed as something
we don't have -- technology of cold fusion was
used to
produce
this metal, the landing sites, the strange circular patterns in
the grass
that are now only gaining
attention in Britain and
other countries,
all of this stuff had never been
pretty much
discounted by
the UFO community because Elders
and Wendelle
Stevens had
gone outside of the UFO
community to get
confirmation. The
UFO people were kept out of
it, the
Billy
Meier case I think exemplifies the biggest
weakness in UFOLOGY
and that's
the jealousy that permeates the
field...everybody
wants to be the only one with the real story
of UFOs,
so they
kind of
written this guy off only because he
didn't cooperate
with them.
CHUCK HARDER
We have been able to get some photos from a
source who has some
negatives that
were just recently located...some from ten feet
away, I used to be in the motion picture
business. If they are
models they
cost thousands of dollars and I doubt if
a simple
Swiss farmer
could have done it...
GEORGE KNAPP
I'd agree with
ya, the reason we got interested in
Billy Meier,
it goes back to Lazar, was because Bob Lazar says, the
saucer
that he saw
fly, he dubbed it the sport model, was
the same
saucer in the
Meier photos, exactly the same.
CHUCK HARDER
The new ones or
the old ones?
GEORGE KNAPP
The new one.
CHUCK HARDER
Ok, that's the
one we've got.
GEORGE KNAPP
Going back to the things he saw (Lazar) at
S-4, he saw the nine
saucers, he said
all nine of them were different, like we got the
variety pack,
but the one he saw fly was like
the one in the
Meier photo.
(There are Three types
photographed by Billy
Meier.)
That's why we decided to check out the Meier part
of the
(UFO)
story.
>>>>At
this point Chuck Harder tells George Knapp that there is a
break coming up
and after the break would he please tell Mr.
and
Mrs. America what
they should do to get the truth.<<<<
CHUCK HARDER
I hope that Mr.
and Mrs. America make note of the
name George
Knapp and Bob
Lazar so that if anything ever happens to them, you
know why.
GEORGE KNAPP
Someone should
tell us what's going on...TV and
movies have
conditioned us...we
won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran
for
President promised that if he was elected that he vowed
to open
all the UFO files
and he didn't -- we wrote to him asking why and
he didn't respond. We want the government to come clean.
If
that takes a Congressional Investigation...that's
something that
should be looked
at. If it is launched we have to make
sure that
there are no CIA,
contractors and the like
involved otherwise
people aren't
going to believe it. We've seen
enough of this
whitewash stuff
over the years. If there's nothing to
the story,
then open up the
files and prove it to us!
CHUCK HARDER
OK, have the government let the press into these
areas and don't
first clean them
out...
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