This document contains the transcript of the Issues Paranormal forum Sunday Night Conference dated October 16, 1988.

[This document contains the transcript of the Issues Paranormal forum Sunday

Night Conference dated  October 16, 1988.  Special surprise guest is Tracy Torme

one of the principles in the production of the recent television broadcast "The

UFO Coverup". - Ted Markley]

User  User ID       Nod  Rm   Name / Forum Area

----  ------------  ---  ---  -----------------

 26   71605,2013    SFM   5   Gerry

 37   76011,1324    TOM   5   Gregg Gallagher

 42   70511,17      CRZ   5   Mike

 44   76057,276     TAM   5   Tom Shaughnessy

 49   72135,424     PNB   5   Drax

 49   72135,424     PNB   5   Tracy Torme

 64   76340,1653    QLA   5   Jim

 83   72310,2472    BOI   5   Don M

 97   76703,266     WBR   5   G-WIZ

109   76474,2001    HAR   5   Mike Lee

109   72750,463     WPM   5   samuel lamerson

113   76510,3430    DCI   5   Doug

121   71450,3504    ANN   5   Bert

124   76012,3361    MRT   5   Ted

141   72750,1654    WIL   5   CHRIS

142   74270,3360    BOI   5   DON

146   71340,276     SOR   5   Mark

148   76703,244     HWV   5   Dave Peyton

(5,Drax) Good news

(Ted) Tell us Drax!

(5,Drax) Tracy Torme, one of the producers of the special, will be calling me

voice soon wants to respond to your comments. GA

(Ted) Ok.  Are we all ready?  Ok. This seems as good as spot as any to get

started....

(5,Gregg Gallagher) Question: Why no media coverage of allegations made in

special??

(Ted) For those new to our Sunday night CO we operate under formal CO rules

(particularly with this many people!) Ok.  The hot topic tonight is the "UFO

Coverup" TV special presented last Friday night.  Several messages expressing a

variety of opinions have already appeared on the Issues Paranormal message

board.  Tonight, my co host [DRAX] will be in touch via voice line with one of

the principals of the show, Tracy Torme. Ok, let's open up the Floor. GA

(5,Gregg Gallagher) ?

(5,DON) ?

(5,Bert) ?

(Ted) Ok. Gregg was first. GA GREGG

(5,Gregg Gallagher) Thanks - My family and myself were somewhat blown away by

the special- question is  why no media attention??

(Ted) Good Question. I know that DON was trying to get some [media] attention

locally, DON can you comment (then DRAX) ga

(5,Drax) May I?

(5,DON) Ok, I contacted the local station that was broadcasting the special, in

order to see if they would be interested in a hook up, with myself, Don Mason,

the Idaho State MUFON Director, who is here tonight for the first time and

although the staff was interested, they had to get the General Managers after 4

phone calls from me....still no response. I feel that it is like many things

connected with this  phenomenon.... if they thought that it would help ratings.

GREAT!!  however, they never responded back.  Now for my comment. The special

was special in many ways more information than I would have believed, from two

intelligence operatives.  At last, an appearance of believability from someone

associated with the US Gov.  However, how much was left out?  I think that there

were generous amounts of disinformation given out very freely, so as not to

alarm the public??  Hopkins, I feel sold out for the almighty $.   He wasn't shy

about what really happens to the victims in his books, why not where it would

really generate some curiosity?   ga

(5,Jim) ?

(Ted) Ok. Jim, er... DRAX... now has Tracy on line and besides DRAX had a

comment. GA DRAX

(5,Drax) Well, I was going to type in what Tracy had started to dictate to me

for the message base, but since he's here now, lets go right to his opening

comments....

[From here on Tracy Torme will actually be DRAX typing his responses while in

contact over the telephone - ed.]

(5,Tracy Torme) As the show was being developed a major split in philosophy took

place between Seligman (producer) on one side and Brubaker and I on the other

Seligman is basically LBS, so there was no question of who would have the final

say. KB and I both backed away from the project, concentrating on "damage

control" etc. In answer to certain comments.  The "huge" GB audience actually

WAS huge. We had an overflow crowd that filled another room who were not on

camera. We had to partition off that room for technical reasons. Because the

rest of the show ran long GB was cut nearly in half, which explains brevity and

superficiality of presentation of that segment. Also, AGREED that never-ending

music was TERRIBLE, and pace of show was WAY too fast. KB and I were dead-set

against use of teleprompter but were overruled. My problem with the show was

that we tried to squeeze too much into too little time. BUT DISAGREE about lack

of meaningful content. Basically, this was the first show to present MJ-12,

Roswell, FALCON, CONDOR, Emenegger film, Coleman sighting, Russian UFO interest,

etc. etc. Hope these firsts were not overwhelmed by certain problems caused by

live broadcast remember, live TV leaves one wide open for clumsy looking

mistakes. Tape doesn't. GA

(5,DON) ??

(Ted) First Tracy (via DRAX) I want to say that I think the show gave the

general public what it has never seen before.  I think the first-time "problems"

should and can be forgiven.. Next is Bert GA

(5,Bert) Tracy, have you or the other producers gotten any inquiries from other

parts of the media on the show.  I would think the hook up with the Russians

alone would constitute media interest, regardless of the subject matter. ga

(Ted) Ok, Tracy Torme GA

(5,Tracy Torme) I did several interviews including AP and UPI before the show

nothing immediately following show. I'll know more when I get back to LA on

Tuesday (I'm still in Gulf Breeze). GA

(5,DON) ??

(Ted) Ok Jim is up next ga Jim

(5,Jim) I found much of the program presented information already known to the

general public and found the testimonies of both Condor and Falcon extremely

unbelievable specially the parts consisting of allowing the ETs to have complete

control of an military base and having their favorite food being strawberry ice

cream. GA

(5,DON) ??

(5,Tracy Torme) I'm a skeptic on "the birds" stories as well suspect

disinformation. However, I think you're flat wrong about saying the general

public knew most of what was presented I made a short list of some of the things

which were new to the public. Can you say otherwise? (in a follow-up)? GA

(Ted) Any follow Jim? ga

(5,Jim) Ted to follow up. Well to begin with I suspected Blue Book to be a front

for a larger operation so the MJ-12 was not a surprise. Most of the information

presented has been published previously in one form or another as well as being

channeled by people who claim to be in contact with ets...the only thing that

caught me off guard was the claim for the military base under alien control and

the supposed ship the military has.  Why would advanced civilizations allow us

to carry our problems...ie war and discord into space on one of their vehicles.

GA

(5,Tracy Torme) First you said, "I found much of the program presented

information already known to the general public".  Do you honestly believe that

because SOME of this material was published somewhere the general public is

familiar with it?  Again, I say that criticism that there was nothing new is

unfair and untrue GA

(5,DON) ??

(5,Mike) ?!

(5,Jim) Well how's this. What "may" have been new REEKED of the National Enquire

type journalism. GA

(5,Tracy Torme) OK. I am critical in many ways of the other night's show

however, you continue to make broad statements which don't seem to have

specifics behind them. Even at its worst, this show was certainly much higher

journalistically than the National Enquirer...don't confuse the format with the

content. GA

(5,Bert) ?

(5,Jim) ?

(Ted) People we must move on. Gerry was next then DON and BERT ga Gerry

(5,Gerry) I agree with some that this was a history making event even though

much of the material was already in print such as in *Aztec*.  I would like to

ask tracy if he thinks this was somehow "permitted" to be aired as a damage

control maneuver.  Also acknowledge that a pretty face was put on what may be a

very sinister situation for all of us.  What about that?  ga

(5,Tracy Torme) OK, first not to belabor point, but please keep in mind that

most UFO literature, especially books like "AZTEC" reach a TINY percentage of

the population. To say "I read that before in Len Stringfield's book, therefore

its not new information," is to be wildly unrealistic. Second, all kinds of

rumors abound regarding ulterior motives or...

(5,Gerry) i agree

(5,Tracy Torme) higher involvement with this special. I can't say for sure

they're untrue, but my personal opinion is, this was just a show made for profit

by a TV production company. GA

(5,Gerry) follow?

(Ted) Quick follow Gerry? ga

(5,Gerry) ok... but wouldn't there have been interference in other efforts in

the past?  ga

(5,Tracy Torme) Very hard to say. The line between Big Brother-type involvement

and paranoia (which frankly runs rampant in this field) is a fine one. GA

(5,Gerry) thanks  ga

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

(Ted) Next is DON ga

(5,DON) Tracy, two things first, why was not Phil Imbrogno on the telecast, and

Hudson Valley for the purposes of the transcript all all of the material  think

it is much more important than Gulf Breeze and second, why no information out to

the public about the real phenomenon of what really occurs during abductions?

ga

(5,Tracy Torme)  pushed hard for"hybrid" theory of abductions to be explored and

also for Imbrogno's involvement failure to include them was simply the

producer's decision based on time constraints and personal taste. Also, I

disagree that HV is more important than GB. In fact I think just the opposite.

GA

(Ted) Bert is next GA

(5,Doug) !

(5,Bert) Tracy, despite certain rough aspects of the show, I suspect the ratings

will be found to be fairly high I would think there might be strong interest in

a mini series documentary, perhaps focusing on different stories such as GB and

Hudson Valley, etc as separate one hr programs (not necessarily live). Have you

considered doing anything like this? ga

(Ted) Ok, added to that what were the ratings and how many callers. GA

(5,Tracy Torme) Would like to see something like that too. No knowledge of

anything in the works.  Too early to tell about ratings, callers, etc. GA

(Ted) Jim you're up again ga

(5,Mike) !!!

(5,Tracy Torme) (that's too bad!)

(Ted) keep it BRIEF!!! ga doug

(5,Doug)  have found reaction among friends to be positive and most have little

knowledge of the subject most are starting to read now Isn't that the desired

reaction? ga

(5,Tracy Torme) Yes, absolutely! GA

(Ted) Mike, yer up! ga

(5,Mike) first, I applaud your efforts in getting this stuff OUT THERE...a

frequent comment I've heard was that the 900# was a scam to make $.GA

(5,Tracy Torme)  In my humble opinion, the 900 number idea was simply STUPID.

First off, we had a number for those who HAVEN'T seen UFOs how many people are

going to bother to tell us what they HAVEN'T seen. The entire idea was silly,

but was "commercial," therefore was in from the very beginning its called

"Living in the USA." No knowledge of direct profit motive, therefore can't

confirm nor deny but I doubt it. GA

(Ted) Still I would be interested in how many total callers there were.  This

will give some idea of the interest level. ga

(5,Tracy Torme) Couple more questions, then we've got to skedaddle. GA

(5,Mike) do you know anything about the people behind the new War of the Worlds?

(5,Tracy Torme) Yeah, they're friends of mine. What would you like to know?

(5,Mike) I just noticed that they are incorporating a lot of UFO lore and

wondered who they were.ga

(5,Tracy Torme) Yes. Greg Stranges is the main guy behind it, and is very

familiar with Hopkins' work. Another driving force on the show is an abductee.

GA

(Ted) I have a quick one.  What do you see in Jim Speiser???? We have found him

to be a egocentric guy. (HAH!) ga

(5,Tracy Torme) the lovable dean of Ufology, Hal Starr to be his personal

sidekick and traveling companion. GA

(Ted) Tracy we thank you for your time and attention tonight we hope that you

can visit us again soon (and you don't have to drag Speiser with you !!!) Thanks

again - and all kidding aside Jim, that for a wonderful evening. ga

(5,Drax) Tracy says Thanks for the opportunity, and I say your welcome. GA

(5,Gerry)

(Ted) I thought it might be interesting to do a quick survey of the thoughts on

the show, but first where is everybody from? GA

(Ted) NJ ga

(5,Gerry) Oakland CA

(5,samuel lamerson) w. palm beach ga

(5,Mike) CA

(5,Bert) MI

(5,Mark) Salem, OR

(5,Doug) DC

(5,Dave Peyton) Huntington WV

(5,Drax) Fountain Hills, AZ

(5,samuel lamerson) ?

(5,DON) Boise, Id

(Ted) First survey ? How many though the show was valuable? ga

(5,Drax) Me!

(5,DON) ?

(Ted) ME

(5,Gerry) yes!!

(5,Bert) yes

(5,DON) Me

(5,Mike) Me too!

(Ted) How many called in for further government investigation? ga

(Ted) ME

(5,Drax) Me!

(5,DON) me

(5,Doug) nah!

(5,Gerry) didn't but should have

(5,Bert) should have also

(5,Mike) ditto

(Ted) How many have seen a UFO CE I

(5,DON) How about Government disclosure

(5,Mike) Me

(5,DON) me

(5,Doug) no

(5,Gerry) nope

(Ted) How many have been involved in a CE II

(5,Doug) no

(Ted) Any abductions? ga

(5,DON) I think Dale was!

(Ted) Any one else want to take a vote on a ? ga

(5,DON) How many think there was disinformation

(5,DON) me

(5,Drax) Me

(Ted) ME

(5,Mike) maybe

(5,Dave Peyton) bound to be some

(5,Gerry) by selection of material

(5,Doug) pass

(5,Drax) You mean, "official" disinfo, right Don?

(5,DON) Yes

(5,Mike) How about discussing that?

(5,Drax) !

(5,samuel lamerson) ?

(Ted) Samuel has been waiting, GA SAM

(5,samuel lamerson) I am new to all of this and would like to know where to find

more information (periodicals etc.) ga

(5,DON) ??

(Ted) Try "Intruders" by Budd Hopkins (Drax?) ga

(5,Drax) OK, briefly, (because my girlfriend is mad at me). Or Try MUFON UFO

Journal ( Seguin TX). Some best info comes from Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

(CAUS) contact me by EMAIL for their address -- 72135,424. Of course, ParaNet,

but I don't like to toot my own horn...

(5,DON) I'm not shy

(5,Drax) Don's not shy...

(5,Drax) heheh...

(5,Doug) !

(5,samuel lamerson) I call the para-0n in Phoenix is that the one?

(5,Gerry) I'd give my reading list but I read only discredited material

(Ted) Where can he reach ParaNet? ga

(5,DON) ??

(5,Drax) that's one of them, Samuel, but Don's board is just as good...

(5,Bert) MUFON, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Seguin, TX 78155-4099

(5,samuel lamerson) I live in Florida, anything close?

(5,Drax) I believe that the entire MJ-12 scenario as painted by Moore is

disinformation, to cover something similar. GA

(5,DON) ??

(5,Drax) Nothing in FL, one in Atlanta.

(5,DON) the segment concerning the EBE's alleged fondness for ice cream was just

TOO much an obvious attempt to make them look "REAL AMERICAN" and benign.

Considering what..

(5,Mike) (or maybe they DO like ice cream)

(5,DON) has occurred in the last few years, I found that very distasteful.  ga

(Ted)Don. Do you think that the "Dipping the Hands in Blood" is more or less

real that the Ice Cream? GA

(5,DON) I have no answer for that, and I never ascribed to that theory, however

while investigating mutes as a police officer, and after what I was told this

summer by Paul, and many of the similar points of view on Friday by Falcon and

Condor.  Lear may be closer than many of us want to admit.  ga

(5,Doug) My point was made ga.

(5,samuel lamerson) price for mufon, also here would I find printed material on

gulf breeze and mj-12? ga

(5,Bert) $25.00 per year.

(Ted) Try LIB 10 here and also MUFON publications.  Mike is next ga

(5,Mike) is quite a bit of anecdotal data indicating neutral if not GOOD aliens

as well.ga

(5,Gerry) yes I was going to make the mute point but Don did, and also the leaks

pertaining to autopsies all seem to point to no digestive system as we know it.

In fact, the mouth cavity dead ends.  Also agree about many different types of

aliens and motives.  Much more could be said about this, but no room here to go

into it.  ga

(5,Bert) Don referred to his friend Paul who is the subject of a file that Don

loaded up on LIB 10. BTW there has been great interest in that file as it has

had over 60 downloads in abut 10-15 days (probably a major record on CIS)...

(5,Gerry) agent.txt?

(5,Bert) I was wondering, Don, if you've had any contact with Paul about the TV

show last Friday.  Also any possible connections between Falcon, Condor, Lear

and Bill English? ga

(5,DON) first Paul is recovering from a very serious illness right now I have

not had any direct contact with him since his illness as to Lear.  Paul took ill

when he heard his story was on CIS. John called me this weekend, and we had a

long conversation as a matter of fact I am now writing a file that I hope to

have posted this week that concerns Lear, the broadcast, and how much of this

ties together.  ga

(Ted) Great. We look forward to reading it when do you think you will upload it?

ga

(5,DON) I hope to have it completed and posted by Weds.

(5,samuel lamerson) can you recommend a couple of files that would give me kind

of an overview of who lear is, more about mj12 and other things?ga

(Ted) First DIR.1 and DIR.2 contain a brief description of all Lib 10 files.

Try KEYWORD searching on LEAR and MJ-12. ga

(5,Bert) LEAR.TXT on LIB 10

(5,samuel lamerson) thanks very much for the help, goodnight all

(5,Doug) I noticed three different types of aliens described new to me was the

two russians (sounded like a little too much vodka) and the AF "Training film

landing" Any comments? ga

(5,DON) The Landing at Holloman as alleged to have taken place in 1964 now one

element of disinformation is this.  A number of years ago, Rod Serling did a

film that explored the UFO enigma the climax of the docudrama was to have been

film shot during the landing at the AF base.  Then according to some "cold feet"

prevailed, because of what the EBE's were found out to have been doing.  Much of

what Lear wrote about concerns the alleged "deal" that Uncle Sam was supposed to

have made with the EBE's.  Now, as of Friday, it appears to have been proven by

the admission of the two intelligence agents.  At least the part about the

"deal". Who really knows, time will tell. ga

(5,Bert) Just wondering about the possibility of getting Lear on as a guest here

in the near future. Also what about the possibility of Linda Howe as a guest?

does anyone here know Linda well enough to call her? ga

(5,Mike) I went to school with her but haven't spoken in years.

(Ted) I'll call Lear ga <gotta go people> ga

(5,DON) Ted, Wedge may know how to contact her.

(5,Gerry) I know a good friend of hers.

(5,DON) Ted, are you going to talk to Lear tonight?

(Ted) No, I'll try calling Tuesday or Wednesday. You wanna call him? ga

(5,DON) I thought that I may speak to him tonight.

(Ted)  Ok Great.  We'll get him a free PPN for the night. OK? ga

(5,DON) What about a PPN for moi?  Do you know what my card said to me last time

I got the bill?

(Ted) "Ouch!" ? ga

(5,DON) Ya.

(Ted)  Nite all! ga

(5,Bert) nite Ted!

(5,DON) Nite Ted

(5,DON) Nite all